Phil's other musical page.

this weeks--NMB

2012-03-16T13:41:00.000-07:00

http://www.newmusicbox.org/articles/a-federal-case-for-the-arts/

Nero fiddled while Rome burned...

Phil Fried says:

March 12, 2012 at 11:10 am

“We have learned to take……”

Nope.

“We” in the public education business have learned no such thing. “We” have not replaced Euro centric culture with a multicultural view,rather we have eliminated the study of arts completely.

We “have” learned to take tests.

Period.

Reply to this comment

Phil Fried says:

March 12, 2012 at 8:26 pm

“..primary school music educators and parents for us (I am both)..”

Oh Mr. Holbrooke? Would you mind identifying yourself with an actual name, website, and or occupation? The web has taught me to take anonymous claims with skepticism.

Yours included.

a troll is a troll--I mean really?

2011-12-30T10:24:00.000-08:00

As usual my points seem to subtle for folks to respond to. Naturally I tend to see red when ever MTG makes a comment, and sadly it seems that alleged Ariel is just another troll as revealed when I tried to agree with her.

Phil Fried says:

December 17, 2011 at 2:32 pm

Certainly a lot of recently composed music is being performed in New York City. Whether this activity fully represents new music is another question. Rather the NYC scene may represent new music yet not include it.

Phil Fried says:

December 18, 2011 at 12:43 pm

On second though these two articles seem to restate that old sawhorse uptown/downtown.

Something like this:

Composers in group “a” are performed in what composers in group “b” call museums. (Arts institutions). Composers in group “b” prefer to be performed in museums. (Arts institutions).

Did I miss something?

Phil Fried says:

December 21, 2011 at 11:55 am

“..In my concert travels I have yet to find people who
buy tickets to a concert based solely on a review by any critic…”
I believe those folks are called snobs.
I know more than a few.

Phil Fried says:

December 21, 2011 at 4:36 pm

“..but to call people who think for themselves snobs is a misdirected shot -..”

Why yes it is. It seems that you completely misread my post. I was actually referring to the folks who don’t think for themselves.

Phil Fried says:

December 21, 2011 at 5:01 pm

“Mr. Fried, you may allow other people to think for you…”

That’s a good description.

2011-12-03T16:00:00.000-08:00

Being reduced to a scold ain't fun-but really. Worse these folks claim that composing for a bassoon is somehow less likely to get a performance than an orchestral work? Oh my imagine how many bassoonists there are compared to say string quartets? Solo instrument music especially for college players is lucrative indeed.

http://www.newmusicbox.org/articles/higher-definition-the-link-between-opera-and-film/

Phil Fried says:

November 23, 2011 at

For me the connection is tenuous. Film scoring is mostly an instrumental form. Opera is not. On the other hand if your expectation is a dramatic reading with the words set to music, heterophonicly, to the underscoring fine. In fact I sent a letter to MN opera some time ago to that effect. What I had in mind was to turn classic movies into operas using their original sound tracks. Obviously the same procedure could be used to create new works

_______________________________
http://www.newmusicbox.org/articles/the-composers-toolbox/

Phil Fried says:

November 23, 2011 at

I like harmony and counterpoint. Then again I don’t teach in a university.

coming to the end of this I think

2011-11-19T09:42:00.000-08:00

What can I say NMB has sunk even lower and no comment Colin. M presents his either/or view of the world. He conflates complexity of explanation with dissonance. As if serial music is by its very nature formally complex. It's not. Sometimes its incredibly simple.
Then again for me its not my serial music right or wrong.

http://www.newmusicbox.org/articles/adding-by-subtracting/#comment-12532

Phil Fried says:

November 15, 2011 at

Two things Mclaren:
The complex or rigorous jargon filled explanations of recent works, (even consonant or tonal ones) continue in university and college seminars everywhere.
As for form; humor, music drama, and emotion, (to name a few) are not easily achieved without it.

______________________________
http://www.newmusicbox.org/articles/just-say-no-to-great-men/

Naturally the person commenting back has no idea what I'm talking about their frame of reference limited--that doesn't stop them from talking pop music. The velvet underground may be a rock classic but they are never played on classic rock radio.

Phil Fried says:

November 14, 2011 at

The scorn of anonymous bloggers is well know and can be found attached to most every news story not just about the arts. Even here. The arts, for the main stream media exist mostly as weird news; multimillion dollar painting sold for pennies etc. etc. Or as a playground for press agents and publicists with an angle. Sigh.
I understand the need to get rid of the idea that only a “great man” (or person)can possibly create great art. The problem is what has come to replace this idea.
Rather than praise a “great artist” who set a standard we might perhaps aspire to, we now live in the time of the “successful artist.”

Hardly an improvement.

Phil Fried says:

November 14, 2011 at

Jon I do agree with you. Yet the successful writer Edith Wharton gave financial support to the less successful Henry James and there are many other examples of this. Rossini’s deference to the aforementioned Beethoven for example. What their criteria was for assuming greatness in others I’m not sure. This is for certain; until we all agree on what greatness means –what are the qualifiers etc. the point is moot.

Phil Fried says:

November 15, 2011 at

“…two irreconcilable views of music history…”

Only two?

this week even more censorship

2011-11-05T12:09:00.000-07:00

http://www.newmusicbox.org/articles/and-the-winner-is/

Phil Fried says:

November 2, 2011 at

I think this is the reason composers organizations disprove of pay to enter contests. If you want to know which new music ensembles funded their, well lets say, pre-selected intends and themselves with high priced entrance fees from the losers just look at the old competition notices (fees) and then the relationships with their final selections in their programs. A little detective work can do the trick.

I will not name names.

On the other hand, I suppose this is no worse than the guaranteed performances available as a gratuity to college faculty.

Oh. There was a particular competition in Florida, I think it was a vocal competition that charged high fees and did not award a prize for a number of years–they were finally closed down by a lawsuit. Anyone have the details.

_____________________________
http://www.newmusicbox.org/articles/a-question-of-motivation/

Phil Fried says:

November 1, 2011 at

There are plenty of experimental composers who have reputations to uphold, just as many as “conservative” types.

This is besides the point.
Any composer who pays for their own performance is an amateur.

Professionals get paid.

Phil

a little late....

2011-11-01T14:14:00.000-07:00

http://www.newmusicbox.org/articles/got-performance-footage/

Phil Fried says:

October 21, 2011 at

I love tech talk!
This is why my performances at Roulette are so valuable– great vids by professionals.
My opera excerpts from the MN fringe came out well, but some other performances, also done by professionals, didn’t quite have the sonic quality to post (after all it is about the music).
For my children’s songs, and my high school productions, I use a kodack Zi8 mini camcorder with an attached Sony stereo mic. Cheap and quality.

see my vids here: http://www.youtube.com/user/thisby1
________________________________________
http://www.newmusicbox.org/articles/amateurism-revisited/

Phil Fried says:

October 21, 2011 at

“yet it is a rare occurrence to find a music teacher with any amount of composition experience or instruction. ..The reasons for this are many, including an already immense music education curriculum and lack of resources due to many composition instructors being required to teach theory courses, reducing their ability to create opportunities for anyone outside of their own studios…”
Wow Rob. Though I find your post well meaning the insistence of a top down over view hides many issues. Yes there are arts standards for the public schools in many if not all states, yet most states don’t require an arts specialist to teach them. So composition, or any art, can be taught by a general classroom teacher or a math, computer, or science teacher for that matter. It happens all the time. Further, they decide how and if the standards are meet. (In MN a non-arts classroom teacher is only required to take 2 arts classes to license). So your complaint about untrained music teachers is true but not the way you think. Arts teachers can be irrelevant.
I can’t speak for the private/charter schools.
Also “no child left behind” is killing arts public school programs –no principal ever lost a job cutting the arts to have more test prep time.
The problem with a top down view is that it marginalizes people like myself, who happen to have the very expertise you say rarely exists.
I too am disappointed by the many k-12 composition programs I am familiar with. (That would take too long explain here). I too have said the many of the same things as Mr. Rzewski has but I’m just a k-12 public school teacher. Right?
On the other hand when your putting out fires you don’t have time to fool with policy.
Phil Fried instrumental specialist spps

Reply to this comment

Phil Fried says:

October 21, 2011 at

clarification:
A MN non-arts specialist classroom teacher needs only 2 music classes to license. My point is that their required musical training is cursory.

slow week and no one bit!!!

2011-10-14T13:39:00.000-07:00

http://www.newmusicbox.org/articles/drivers-in-the-new-music-economy/

Phil Fried says:

October 12, 2011 at

Interesting thoughts. I know I have complained about gate keepers and log rolling quite a bit on these pages. I do know how the system works and part of it is political after all. On the other hand I am aware that many teachers are more than willing to take credit for the success of their students in which they had no hand in at all. Either as a teacher or as a gatekeeper.
This is important as a teacher’s status or a composers status as a teacher is reflected in having successful students or being associated with them. This is of course not limited to music composition.
In this way they can skate on top of a rink created by others.

this weeks and a retred! not to mention censorship

2011-10-08T09:40:00.000-07:00

Perhaps it is just me but I don't like to be bloggers who patronize and I'm afraid that MNG does nothing but. I have no patience for those who will not stand behind their own opinions.

http://www.newmusicbox.org/articles/higher-than-an-eagle/

Phil Fried says:

October 3, 2011 at

“…it would be interesting to compare the cost of the string quartet to the cost of the helicopters….
Does groupon have a coupon?
Phil

_____________________________________________________
http://www.newmusicbox.org/articles/by-any-other-name-2/

Phil Fried says:

October 2, 2011 at

“..I still think it’s just more rewarding to play music with other people, though…”
As someone who performs solo improvisations almost exclusively, though I do interact with electronics, ensemble improvisation can devolve into playing historical roles. Not to mention just loud and fast. Of course this is not always true. That said,I’m not much interested in fulfilling the historical role of the jazz bass player, even in a free jazz setting. Sure sometimes I do that, I do think of myself as a professional, but there are many other folks much better than I for that task. Solo improvisation is different.
Problematic for me is also the tendency for folks to see musicians only in terms of the quality of those they perform with. For me that is not possible either.
Oh well.

_______________________________________
http://www.newmusicbox.org/articles/the-unimaginable-otherwise/

Phil Fried says:

September 14, 2011 at

“..To me, it’s a bracing reminder that the “unimaginable otherwise” has always been the only real frontier of new music…”
True, yet why only interpret this to mean opening up closed forms and completed compositions? Do I really want to spend my all time recomposing the works of others? One might argue that that is what composers do anyway. Sure. Then again it depends on how, if, or what, you model.
_________________________
http://www.newmusicbox.org/articles/reappraising-walter-piston/#comment-10138

Phil Fried says:

September 15, 2011 at

“…I for one don’t see any comments above that would remotely be describable as “ignorant” or “anti-intellectual.” Perhaps you could clarify your meaning?..”
Hmmmm. I do. I believe Mr. Smith was refereeing to Mclaren’s post actually. Personally I’m surprised that such a post was allowed here.

Phil Fried says:

September 16, 2011 at

“..Coercive dogmatists are fundamentalists…”
Who is forcing who to do what? I really have no idea what you are talking about. I note this; that you seem to project a view of art as a see-saw. That is for one composer to be up you must put another composer down.
__________________________________________
http://www.newmusicbox.org/articles/the-role-of-doubt/#comment-10396

Phil Fried says:

October 4, 2011 at

Schoenberg continues to fascinate, even those who despise him.
Oddly one legacy of Schoenberg’s arrogance used by many composers, even those who despise him, was his claim that there was a musical enemy that was actively working against him. One sees this in the many straw man augments used by composers that appear even on these very pages.
A close look at these claims shows that they are false, and self serving, except in the case of Schoenberg’s music.
In his case the opposition was real.

My 2nd reply--which was not printed!!!

last reply

"...Actually, Phil, there is already an established term in musicology for this. It’s called the “lachrymose perspective.”

Though this "jargon" may be inclusive of my comments Mark, I'm not sure that we mean the same thing here. (Though obviously to have an enemy, and go public with it, would involve some negativity).

Jargon aside my point this; it's one thing to have an enemy another thing to pretend to have one.

It does not surprise me that many of the comments on this page fall into some category or another. Some of which are outside the purview of musicologists and historians.

a little late but...

2011-09-24T16:51:00.000-07:00

Generally I don't like to blog on S. as the ideas are so predictable and self serving, so too Armando. On the other hand a little reality is not a bad thing.

http://www.newmusicbox.org/arti cles/the-audience-does-not-exist/

Phil Fried says:

September 14, 2011 at

For classical music there are three kinds of audiences members; interested, disinterested, and captive. Though I am not convinced that art, or an artist, can exist without the disinterested audience; it takes some folks longer than others to find it. Perhaps since my motto is no sonic prejudice my view is atypical.

Phil Fried says:

September 14, 2011 at

“..I just shake my head when composers say, as they so commonly do, that there’s no such thing…”

Well I guess my view isn’t so atypical after all.

Phil Fried says:

September 14, 2011 at

“..I’ve always thought a charismatic, self-confident, engaging personality could transcend these “boundaries” contemporary music’s impact…”
Don’t you mean “a charismatic, self-confident, engaging personality’s music could transcend these “boundaries”??

Or are you saying its more important to be interesting than to be talented? Well perhaps so but no one, no matter how charismatic, can sell me a musical idea unless I can hear it.

on the other hand

2011-09-13T12:56:00.000-07:00

http://www.newmusicbox.org/articles/ways-to-end-a-piece/

Phil Fried says:

September 8, 2011 at

Its been pointed out by others the compositional problem of placing too strong a cadence, that sounds final, into the beginning of a work. Strauss’s Zarathustra and Moussorgsky’s Boris for example. One tends to forget the rest of work. That said the question of time and music is an artistic one with many answers. I myself have ended a number of works in mid sentence as it were. That is neither with a final cadence or a fade out. I don’t think I’m the only one to have tried that.
______________________________________________________________________
http://www.newmusicbox.org/articles/why-commemorative-concerts

Phil Fried says:
September 7, 2011 at
One of the big changes to hit classical music over the last few decades has been its decline of social necessity. Commemorative concerts are one of the few things left to it.

Reply to this comment
Colin Holter says:
September 7, 2011 at
One of the big changes to hit classical music over the last few decades has been its decline of social necessity.
True enough, but I always wonder if “social necessity” – that is, the perceived value of classical music to upward social mobility – is something we’re better off without. To me, it seems like the wrong reason to support classical music; were those people who used to get all minked up and hit the opera to see and be seen really likely to have what we’d call genuine aesthetic experiences?
The less damning version of this phenomenon is the faded “eat your vegetables” character of classical music, according to which listening to classical music was generally agreed to be a Good Thing To Do. This kind of social necessity is easier to get behind (albeit less profitable!), but as a practice it’s equally short on self-reflection. In other words, I don’t know that I’d rather people attend classical music concerts out of more or less oblique peer pressure than not attend them at all. I could be convinced, though.
Phil Fried says:
September 8, 2011 at
No Colin, not that social necessity. True though. If upwardly mobile know your visual art and film and food but classical music is optional. Rather the social need of the public to take part in the classical music community. That social necessity. It’s a public event that most folks feel is appropriate for classical music to to have an important part and they will attend said event.

______________________________________________________

dull week --maybe not with some additions

2011-08-20T21:22:00.000-07:00

Ok pgblu like to explain what others think even if he hasn't confirmed the facts of their opinions . Worse since he is always right you couldn't possible disagree with him. As you see...

I'm getting picked at Rob because as you can see you can't always tell if he is talking to us, that is us composers. or the "we" that is the subjects of his book. Nothing is more irritating than to pretend that a private party is public. That is simply a matter of writing. Here Rob does not mean "where is our place" rather where is the place of the folks in my book. (by the way I was not referencing his book by mentioning success--I don't know who is in it ---I was mentioning his link. Though its not odd he would reference his fellow NYT posters. On the other hand... Mark Grant generates a lot of heat but not much light.

http://www.newmusicbox.org/articles/where-is-our-place/

phil fried says:

August 19, 2011 at

Community service is central to my experience as a composer.
http://youtu.be/leODcleuk4I
http://youtu.be/O3zDsM-DQlo
I’m certainly not the only one doing this and if I found a way so can others.
As for political composers I disagree that there are few. It seems that you are only looking for composers are currently “successful”. That term is relative after all. In addition one might draw a distinction between creators of direct political works, and those where the politics are supplied by editorial or title.

Phil Fried says:

August 19, 2011 at

“I…was hoping that if there were divergent views from what I’ve come to find in those interviews, they would be brought to light in this comment section…”
Well Rob it seems that my divergent comments are neither here nor there.
What is the point? Are you planing an addenda?

phil fried says:

August 24, 2011 at

“..Rob Deemer comes along and says that person would do well to join the volunteer fire department, then doesn’t that admonition seem maybe at least a little preachy, self-serving, and smug?…”
I think that its a tension to imply that a composers self-interest is for the public good. I’m not sure that I believe that.

August 24, 2011 at

Pgblu is correct that the term community has not been adequately defined and so my specific comments (it’s not like I haven’t expressed these attitudes before) answer a question no one but myself had in mind. On the other hand to narrow the definition of community to composers or say just the subgroup of successful composers seems wrong to me.

phil fried says:

August 24, 2011 at

A healthy music culture also includes dissent. That’s how I might define it. Yet if you don’t define it that way then my points are moot.

August 24, 2011 at

Phil: I don’t think Rob means to equate composer’s self-interest with the public good, and neither do I. I don’t think Rob nor I wish to privilege any one community over another.
A healthy music culture also includes dissent.
–I should think so!
My complete quote here:
“..A healthy music culture also includes dissent.
That’s how I might define it. Yet if you don’t define it that way then my points are moot.
Ok. You disagree with Rob then your in exact agreement on a point that has not yet been clarified to me -sure.
You disagree with me and then agree with me, but only by honoring part of my statement. Whatever.
My point is this; Rob is privileging a group of composers those who are in his book.

___________________
http://www.newmusicbox.org/articles/color-vs-content/

Phil Fried says:

August 14, 2011 at

For myself setting music to the orchestra is like setting text to music. The words must scan and so my orchestrations must present my musical ideas clearly. The color, then,is in the ideas. I have orchestrated from a short score and direct to full score as well and I’ve had good results both ways–I do try to develop a style. I’ve been told I pretty good at this. As an orchestrator what is interesting for me is the combinations of instruments and creating new parts by heterophony. (For those who don’t know me I am an contrapuntalist). Sometimes practical considerations become important. For example weighting elements towards the stronger players in an ensemble. Anyway, I suggest orchestrating historical music in historical styles first- that’s how I learned.

Phil Fried says:

August 19, 2011 at

Thank you Mark, but I thought we were talking about the living. In any event since I am a follower of Schoenberg I think my comments align. Besides that I try to stay out of the hypothetical.

things heat up about artists getting paid and I confuse MPR with TPT a small update

2011-08-13T14:16:00.000-07:00

http://www.newmusicbox.org/articles/is-the-spotify-model-really-the-answer/#comment-9312

phil fried says:

August 9, 2011 at

I believe that the statistics are this: 96 percent of Americans say that the Arts are important, but only 26 percent think that artists are important. This disconnect leads to the belief and the process that artists don’t need to be paid. Recently I was offered the chance to have my music used by MPR, but they wanted my music with out any restrictions and for no money — forever. When I asked for a shorter commitment on the advise of ASCAP they passed (well they suggested that this project wasn’t for me).

Reply to this comment

Phil Fried says:

August 10, 2011 at

“… If those stats meant all that much then we wouldn’t be having this discussion, we’d all be cashing huge checks!..”
You miss the point Andrew the general acceptance of art rather than the artist themselves is why we don’t cash huge checks.

Phil Fried says:

August 10, 2011 at

Thanks Andrew. You misread me. For me it seems that everyone wants something for nothing. Artists are gifted people. Art can be given as a gift. If we don’t pay the artist for their gifts art dies. So does the artist.

Phil Fried says:

August 10, 2011 at

My Mea Culpa
It was TPT not MPR–sorry.
Phil Fried

phil fried says:

August 11, 2011 at

“…The idea that we’re all hard working artists (and labels) deserving of financial support…a pipe dream …”
Um I’m not talking about financial support I’m talking about artists being paid for their work. Not quite the same thing is it? That is unfortunate vision that most folks have: artists don’t need to be paid they only need support!
hmmmmmm.
Though it is perhaps true that some composers may never be paid for their work, they can certainly try to have the opportunity. True there are over 10,000 composers in NYC alone yet that does not absolve those folks (gatekeepers)who would never think of doing their own job for free, for asking artists to work for nothing.
Oh, Besides TPT something else.
http://artists-bill-of-rights.org/news/campaign-news/canon-advocates-and-supports-artists-and-artists%E2%80%99-rights?/

phil fried says:

August 14, 2011 at

“..But I’m not arrogant enough to think that there is some inherent commercial value in my personal artwork. And I’m quick to judge anyone who makes this argument to be a real jackass.,,,I’m quick to volunteer my money when I feel like someone else’s art benefits me. And if someone can make a living pursuing their own art in a way that benefits others, I completely support that…”
Thank you JW for putting it all out there. The fact that you make money for working on spec is exciting. It does seems that your thoughts show some inconsistency and a not a little anger (or perhaps larding over as well). You are willing to be paid for your own work yet are not willing to attach a value. Your job does. You are willing to “volunteer” money (not pay for)artists who perform public service. That is; artists who benefit yourself and others.
Or did you have some other meaning for a benefit?
Yet you also say that being artistic or commercial makes no difference. You say that one should work in a way that benefits others yet you proudly say that you work for “the man.”
Don’t we all? You talk about the needs of the masses yet many artists do quite well without them or the need to create public benefit.
I have to say JW you are not really saying that artists are unimportant rather you are saying you don’t much like them. Not the same thing. [Jw response to this is too repeat himself like many others he doesn't like artists -not the same thing]

__________________________
http://www.newmusicbox.org/articles/to-blog-or-not-to-blog-2/

Phil Fried says:

August 5, 2011 at

Blogging saved my life. Whats left of it.
Phil Fried

this weeks NMB Phil joins the party!

2011-08-05T13:23:00.000-07:00

http://www.newmusicbox.org/index.php/articles/a-visit-to-banglewood/#comment-9172

Phil Fried says:

August 2, 2011 at

“..I hope more composers take a cue from our man Beuys…”

Sam I’m a little surprised that you didn’t take Mr. Youngman (Youngman?)as a tongue in cheek spoof. That said many composers find art exhilarating and a source of inspiration. Well perhaps not with the same emphasis as you suggest. As too the lack of “personal mythology” in living composers are you kidding?

Reply to this comment

Phil Fried says:

August 2, 2011 at

Sam we are going off topic and I think my point was clear. The question of avatars and their use or misuse has come up before. My personal preference has always been to look outside the frame. Sorry.

“…Phil, please correct me if I’m wrong, but I think that your point is that there is no dearth of this sort of mythologizing among composers….”
Bingo David!
Phil’s very short list of composer mythologists.
Any composer on the internet, or with a presence on the internet.
Any composer with a web site. (University web sites count).
Any composer who also performs.
Any composer who wears black to performances(their own or others).
Any composer who’s personal look reflects their sound.
Any composer who studiously avoids trying to look like a composer.
Any composer with students.
Any composer who works within the tradition.
Any composer who works outside the tradition.
Any composer who switched styles.
Any composer who works in many styles.
Any composer who is style free.
Any composer part of a school.
Any composer who is called; uptown, downtown, bridge and tunnel, out of town, mid town etc.
Any composer who is a Mod or Rocker.
Any composer who is “new” or “old” or “young” etc.
Any composer who write impenetrable prose.
Any composer who writes concisely.
Any composer who blogs.
Any composer who knows a composer who blogs.
Any composer who avoids blogging.
Any composer who knows a composer who avoids blogs.
Any composer who is part of a trend.
Any composer who claims to be outside the trends.
All insiders and all outsiders.
Any composer who does not know how to read or write music and can’t wait to tell you.
Any composer who is pushy.
Any composer who pretends not to be a composer.
Any composer who lives for their art.

Any composer who is modest.
Any composer who is personally wild but composes staid music.
Any composer who is boring but composes wild music.
Any composer who is a brainiac.
Any composer who is brain dead.
Any composer who is disgruntled.
Any composer who is successful.
Any composer who is successful and disgruntled.
Any composer, former composer, or budding composer.
Did I leave anyone out? Yanni and John Tesh-just kidding—-maybe

Its all of us.

As much as I would like a particular composer and their music to be treated as separate values, the composer reflects the music.
True, its also a question of degree. Some more than others. Many times its not the composer who initiates this labeling but entrepreneurial marketing creates this need.

Labels stick.

addenda
Any composer who pretends to be a composer.
Any composer who is mainstream yet pretends to be revolutionary.
Any composer who pretends to be mainstream.
Any composer who pretends.
Any composer who does not pretend.
All sound artists.
All songwriters.
Anyone who confuses the character with the actor.

__________________________________________________________________
http://www.newmusicbox.org/articles/back-on-the-streets-again/
July 30, 2011 at

“Is there any evidence that shortening attention spans are bad for society?…Is there any evidence that people in power have any real interest in controlling the duration of our attention spans? ”

It could well be argued that there is a difference between newspapers that cover a subject in depth and tabloids which don’t. It could then be argued that their is a financial incentive to pander to short attention spans. In depth reporting cost more and takes more of the readers time. On the other hand perhaps reading cliff notes versions of books is just as good as reading the originals. It kind of depends on how you view your society.

July 31, 2011 at

I for one don’t believe in conspiracies. Many a time unintended consequences happen and humans, rations beings they, put them into an orderly fashion that only seems true. Conspiracies tend to tidy things up especially if they fit into our personal prejudices. On the other hand certain actions can become so numerous that generalizations might be drawn. So Joseph. My problem with your mention of “progress” and “important shared values” is that you are leading us to a political debate which cannot take place here.

phil fried says:

August 2, 2011 at

“…I am sure we can agree that dismissing and insulting musicians (and yes I feel this is common here at NMBx) who dedicate their lives to improving and innovating our musical landscape from a centralized position withing popular culture is counterproductive as an advocacy strategy for your work on the periphery…”
So those composers in “a centralized position” can run roughshod over the “periphery” and expect no push back? Why? Because in your opinion they “improve and “innovate?” To accept musical predestination is contrary to being an artist.
Diversity makes us stronger.
Thank you Ratzo for your comments–just what I was thinking. Did you see today’s NY Times cover?

_______________________________________
http://www.sequenza21.com/2011/07/kickstarter-as-a-successful-fundraising-tool/

phil fried says:

July 30, 2011 at 1:01 pm

“It’s being quickly proven that, in the 21st century, great art is sustainable art. This is our green movement…”
Chris this implies musical predestination. If it succeeds with kickstarter its good?
Kickstarter does not keep records or give statistics of those projects who fail, even if you want to learn from those mistakes.

this weeks NMB--noth'in special again except... july 29--switched again

2011-08-04T16:02:00.000-07:00

Disappointed with Rob, he wants to bury "difficult music" but is not too keen on finding the graves. Here is my point; some of the music that Robb puts forward as audience friendly is not. Rather the composer in question puts forth the perception that it is and, oh, "young" folks happen to compose it. Also a bunch of difficult audience scaring music also happens to be in the repertoire because people want to hear it. What of that? Neither Rob nor John Adams for that matter can define difficult music out of existence.

http://www.newmusicbox.org/articles/availability-archivability-and-disposability/

Phil Fried says:

July 26, 2011 at

As to the question of nostalgia and classical greatest hits you must realize that the social necessity of classical music has changed. Yet some works retain a social necessity. The 1812 overture still retains it social need –to celebrate the 4th of July. Oddly this work celebrates the victory of the Russians and the British over our Revolutionary allies the French.
“..Perhaps all this convenience has also made it convenient not to care about music as much….”
One of course can listen without caring. This is my music not your music!
The discussion here is not really my world, as I try to avoid at all costs forced listening, that is I refuse to be anyone’s captive audience. It is true that I do listen to the music of our fellow bloggers on line. I need to know their source. If I want to find a particular composer I usually can. Henza? No problem.
Anyway..
The net contains a hierarchy of listening. Some mass market. Some of it commercial some just folks. Some of it is community. When the classical lounge was on line I has the most played and downloaded selection.
The net is changing even as we speak. Lets hope it keeps its independence.

Reply to this comment

_______________________________________________

http://www.newmusicbox.org/articles/our-work-is-never-done/#comment-9044

Phil Fried says:

July 28, 2011 at

Of course we American composers need more exposure. A fine thing that. Thank you for taking that on.
It is unfortunate Robb that you continue to hint that the problem is those composers (unnamed) who allegedly scare the audience away. You do not make clear if this is a problem of perception or of the music itself. As for cultural erosion that happens when folks “do what they have to” to succeed rather than doing what you need to for expression.

NMB and SQ21

2011-07-22T14:41:00.000-07:00

http://www.sequenza21.com/2011/07/kickstarter-as-a-successful-fundraising-tool/

Armondo has done the Mea Culpa before. What is one to think? Revolutionary? Nope.

Phil Fried says:

July 19, 2011 at 3:22 pm

Pointedly the NY times and others have made a big deal that kick starter is all about “do it yourself.” Evidently something has been left out of this picture as there was no mention of any hired hands to help. No disrespect but doesn’t hiring a “savvy social media publicist” defeat the purpose of kick starter? Or what it claims to be? At least it skews the outlook. If I were cynical I might even consider that the funding in some cases wasn’t even needed.
I want to thank SQ21 for letting us in on the inside information before I try again.

Phil Fried says:

July 19, 2011 at 5:59 pm

Chris I trust you period. I don’t begrudge the success of others. At least I try not too. The more the merrier. Nor do I think that promotion or self promotion is immoral. The problem I have is the constant framing of advice and “opportunities” for artists without transparency. I was happy to see it here, crankiness aside.

___________________________
http://www.sequenza21.com/2011/07/debut-album-artwork-for-steve-reichs-wtc-9-11-cd/

Phil Fried says:

July 21, 2011 at 5:01 pm

Since many folks purchase the coolest current book, that they never read, I suppose its no surprise that folks would buy cd’s they never listen to for the symbolism alone.

Phil Fried says:

July 22, 2011 at 12:11 pm

“But its purpose is to sell CDs, not to piss people off,..”
But Armondo since you can’t be all things to all people this has to be finessed. Pissing the right people off can create controversy which oddly can be great for sales. We are providing publicity even as we speak. As I remember the theory is there is no bad publicity.
_______________________________________________________________
http://www.sequenza21.com/2011/07/new-noises-hardly-explained/comment-page-1/#comment-26054

Phil Fried says:

July 18, 2011 at 2:39 pm

As to Jan Swafford it seems odd to me that one would frame an argument about style on the least know composer mentioned, and to complain not about a composition but an arrangement. Otherwise I like it the article. I myself have no truck with those improvisors/composers/sound artists who do nothing but play loud.
That is a fact but it is also only my opinion.

_______________________________________________________________
http://www.newmusicbox.org/articles/the-value-of-popular-music/#comment-9005

Phil Fried says:

July 20, 2011 at

“If pop musicians played and recorded nothing but covers and older chestnuts, how could they make a living?”
Music can be of a time and place and perhaps that remembrance is even more important than the music that perfumes it.
Nostalgia aside I must agree with Paul.
In fact it can be argued that a great deal of “up to date” sampled music is just reworked oldies.
Phil Fried

this weeks

2011-07-16T10:05:00.000-07:00

Robert Greene's chicken soup for the would be gangsta is creepy and odd yet it seems that everyone hedges their bets. Oddly it seems that, at least at NMB, the profession of music has none of the drawbacks of the visual arts or of theater--who knew?

http://www.newmusicbox.org/articles/turning-the-tables-cutting-the-slack/

Phil Fried says:

July 14, 2011 at

Robert Greene, who I quote here, takes a different tack (even as cynical as I am I can’t agree with him). Rather he sees the social network as far more important than the music. As, for him, that is where success is built.
“There is a university called CalArts in California. I have friends who have gone there. Very interesting place. It was a school that was formed in the sixties, essentially, and basically it is an arts school. They discerned that the art world, there is no more political, crabby, competitive, mean-spirited world than the art world. Because what makes a great work of art or film is very subjective. So there is a lot of politicking. And they created this university to literally train their students to be good at that. They created this thing where you had to learn how to deal with your professors and deal with the politicking and talk about your work in a way that would charm and seduce. And actually develop the kind of political skills that you are going to need when you later go into the art world. That is kind of a unique thing for a university,…”
see here: http://powerseductionandwar.com/robert-greenes-speech-at-yale/

______________________________
http://www.newmusicbox.org/articles/shop-til-you-drop/

Phil Fried says:

July 12, 2011 at

Frank. One wonders what would happen if us new music folks could match that marketing muscle for a year.
Any thoughts?
Phil Fried

Reply to this comment

Phil Fried says:

July 14, 2011 at

“..The goal is to help them learn the values of our society…”
That would be the important value of mass marketing.
Phil Fried

Reply to this comment

slow week --- I was out of town

2011-07-08T14:08:00.000-07:00

http://www.newmusicbox.org/articles/negotiated-contexts/#comment-8900

Phil Fried says:

July 3, 2011 at

What you are really asking Ratzo is; how does one find an audience?Also, can an audience be “scienced?” (For me there are three kinds of audiences; interested, disinterested, and captive).
If you look at my youtube vid hits http://www.youtube.com/thisby1 you see that some of my works are more popular than others even within similar styles.
To me that just means that some works take longer to find their audience than others. No matter. I myself intend to stay true to my vision and start a regular series of improvisation performance here in the twin cities.
Phil Fried

Reply to this comment

The frame and the window.

2011-06-24T15:09:00.000-07:00

The problem I have with most NMB and SQ21 blog posts are these:

They frame their posts to exclude anything that might call it into question. (No minority reports here, nothing holistic).
They frame their posts to exclude or hide pertinent facts.

For me these posts are like watching a movie where I become more and more aware that what I am watching exists not for what I am shown but for what is excluded and outside the frame. I am being directed to an artificial narrative.

phil gets serious again!

2011-06-24T12:37:00.000-07:00

http://www.newmusicbox.org/articles/it-is-what-you-think-it-is-2/

MW gets it wrong I'm afraid. You see DS is being specific about the mystery in his music theater crime work. The work is designed to be incomprehensible, except for the title and the editorial back story--this is about a "true" story. The criminals motivation is the mystery and expressed in an incomprehensible way. Rather fitting actually. So in that case it means there is no ambiguity at all but very specific mystery pertaining to crime stories. The annoying thing is that DS does not mention this at all. He frames his post to make the most obvious and mundane things seem incredible.

Phil Fried says:

June 21, 2011 at

“..but the exact idea being expressed can only be conveyed through the supplied text…”
I disagree.
That is only partially true and then only if there is no visual component to the work. The revealing of action or inaction, emotion or stasis can be shown visually, with underscoring or not.
Many directors have made careers visually reinterpreting songs, opera, etc. into brand new works. This is done by creating new visual scenarios.
On the subject of text perhaps you are not considering that many vocal based works and some instrumental works as well have stage directions, or what amounts to stage directions, that can completely undercut the text and change its meaning. That is there can be more than one layer of text in a work.
There is nothing wrong with creating work that does not take advantage of the above but I just don’t find text limiting.

________________________________________
http://www.newmusicbox.org/articles/experimental-instruction/#comment-8610

Phil Fried says:

June 23, 2011 at

A consideration in such an enterprise is this; do you present experimentalist works by musical examples or by the composers? Why I ask is this: what was the composers commitment to experimental music over their life time? There seems a wide range on this. Were they consistent? Did they compose a work or two in the genre yet mostly compose mainstream work? How did that work? What was their motivation for their experiments? Did they codify the work of others, did they invent or did they have an idea that caused others to listen?
By the way I wonder if Virgil Thomson’s opera fit in here.
Or course its all easy with hindsight. Yet that mind set and the association their of are gone.

___________________________________
http://www.newmusicbox.org/articles/blogging-the-2011-tcg-conference-what-if/

Phil Fried says:

June 16, 2011 at

“What if… revolutionary creators of theater and music worked together to create new performance works outside of the traditional rules of “musical theater” and “opera”?
But David these folks believe that this is exactly what they are doing right now. Further the focus on musical accessibility even among folks like Nautilus Music-Theatre means that one tradition merely replaces another.
Phil Fried, no sonic prejudice

Phil Fried says:

June 17, 2011 at

well its blog time again

2011-06-18T05:14:00.000-07:00

DS blog is infuriating again lets see unlike theater or any other collaborative art nothing can ever spoil collaborations in music? mmmmmmm. Also why is it that all the bloggers here can't praise their own performances enough that they must use straw man arguments? No mention of the other composer on the double bill either. Lastly a "crime story" that has a mystery--wow that new.

http://www.newmusicbox.org/articles/blogging-the-2011-tcg-conference-what-if/
He asks for comments then doesn't like them so ignores the issues As he is an insider he just doesn't get it --true the other comment by DR don't make sense--but my point is different well I though it was.

Phil Fried says:

June 16, 2011 at

Phil Fried says:

June 17, 2011 at

“Boy, you guys are all sunshine and light.”

David. There are those who accept the system as it is and those who don’t. Just because I chose to struggle against the currents of today’s art does not mean I refuse sunshine and light.
Rather I see the breaking dawn ahead.
Lovely view.
Phil Fried, no sonic prejudice

_________________________________________________________
http://www.newmusicbox.org/articles/the-bravo-guy/#comment-8576

Phil Fried says:

June 17, 2011 at

Ok let me get this straight. This “Bravo guy” hangs around orchestras and yells every time he hears your brand new work.
Whats not to like? In fact I would be more than happy to provide music to any orchestra to replace those composers who would prefer not to be irked by said person.
Phil Fried, lets talk.

Erased again!!! the nu new musicbox

2011-06-15T16:35:00.000-07:00

Well there you have it folks all my last weeks posts gone!!! Fortunately this time I re-posted them here. The site is not improved as the blogs are now diminished below the puff work for the new music powers that be. Oddly only one commented on my sequenza21 post and nothing new either. Sigh.
http://www.sequenza21.com/forum/2011/06/if-a-helicopter-falls-in-the-forest/

It took great restraint not to point out to DS that composers are musicians as well. More chicken soup for the composer. As to the theater being more restrictive than the music or any other collaborative art form is ludicrous. In fact the entire tenor of this post strains credulity.

http://www.newmusicbox.org/articles/fear-and-trembling-2/

2011-06-11T09:03:00.000-07:00

This pretty much ties in with the concept-that the more ownership you have in your music compositions the harder it is too succeed as a composer--and no one disputes this?

http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=6958

well ok
By philmusic

If your trying to say that talent is a drawback in our profession I agree with you.

Phil Fried
Phil's I'd throw my grandmother under a bus for success page

____________________________________________________

Saturday, May 28, 2011, 1:43:04 PM
It seems that the less folks have to say the more they talk and this particular subject about how the value of music, personal and monetary, collide keeps popping up. For me the facts are this --you can't give your music away--rather you take a loss or give an in kind payment. That is because the method of transfer of the "of the "goods" has a cost and someone is paying it.

http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=6980

Give it away?
By philmusic

I don't.

Phil Fried

Phil's buy 2 get 1 free page
Thursday, June 09, 2011, 6:28:12 PM
________________________________
I have to say I just don't recognize the composition world described by Ms. Gardner--too many cliches used to create posts; and this one is no exception.

a friend of a friend told me?
By philmusic

Um.. Am I the only one who has actually played a German video game?

Speaking of the portrayal of American violence.

Black Lion

Or just garden variety mayhem.

Neocron

Phil Fried

Phil's the SIMS rule page
Saturday, June 11, 2011, 2:20:12 PM

I lose my cool --so what

2011-06-03T14:17:00.000-07:00

So its like this; what passes for conversation is merely presenting position papers. Open mind? Not on your life!

http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=6954

oh well..
By philmusic

I find it interesting that you and Mr. Little focus only on the intentionality of composition rather than the more prosaic politics of getting a performance.

I believe that you Colin don't believe that there are compositional teams that enforce orthodoxy--that is; excluding members by compositions style alone. I do. You know, those new music groups who up front will tell you (or not) that they won't perform serial, or "difficult" music--yet make the political calculus to perform "Important" composers like Babbitt and Carter etc.

Phil's Political page
Wednesday, May 25, 2011, 3:06:39 PM

If I wasn't clear
By philmusic

In that case I must strongly agree with Dennis. (It seems that there are also stylistic teams by "ideas" as well). On the other hand if everything in music is political then the politics of music just might be irrelevant.

How this might explain my political protest music, that stood on the barricade, or my use of style as satire is unclear.

My problem with the art Mr. Little describes is that there is no professional risk involved. No one goes out on a limb. Rather similar sentiments are a team requirement. not a choice.

Phil Fried

Phil's Song of the Communards, and no I wasn't there.
Thursday, May 26, 2011, 5:16:09 PM

oh my my
By philmusic

"..My decision not to share that music might be politically motivated, of course..."

Or not.

Or perhaps it's some else's political decision not to perform it.

One might ask why the book report and why this book is gospel? Then ask why your book report is apparently unfiltered by your own opinion. Perhaps you don't think you have the right to one but I can hardly believe that. Are you reduced to merely transferring the opinions and ideas of those who write books and you learned in school to those who haven't?

I would rather have my own ideas and be wrong.

Phil Fried

Phil's misinformed page
Saturday, May 28, 2011, 10:21:56 PM

not quite, but there is a popular notion to that effect..
By philmusic

"..I would rather have my own ideas and be wrong..."

"That says it all, really."

Are you certain?

Phil Fried

Phil's down for the count page
Monday, May 30, 2011, 2:24:24 PM

__________________________________________
Here the issue comes down to this--the less ownership you have of your talent the easier it is to sell yourself--advantage the ambitious mediocrities. No one rose to my bait!!

http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=6958

well ok
By philmusic

If your trying to say that talent is a drawback in our profession I agree with you.

Phil Fried

Phil's I'd throw my grandmother under a bus for success page
Saturday, May 28, 2011, 1:43:04 PM

more o' the same

2011-05-27T13:50:00.000-07:00

I get so irate when folks propose creating political art merely as a spectator sport.

http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=6944

d'accord
By philmusic

I'm certainly glad we all agree on this one.

Phil's agreeable page
Tuesday, May 24, 2011, 10:03:54 AM

___________________________________
http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=6954

oh well..
By philmusic

If I wasn't clear
By philmusic

there he goes again...

2011-05-20T13:04:00.000-07:00

Its as if he just discovered rain. Odd in that he proposes that a song writer must know poetry and poets but an opera composer must know nothing. About theater or anything else.

http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=6940

hmmmm? Perhaps things are better in Minnesota
By philmusic

Living poets I have set:

Bill Reichard Bill at HECUA

Heid E.Erdrich Heid's Page

Not to mention myself Phil literary page As for the "deads" they include: Joyce, Hemingway,H.D., Ancient Greeks and Romans, Recipes, Langston Hughes, Gerald de Nerval etc.

I get to attend many dance concerts poetry readings etc. Oh Foster Willey did some nice drawings of me performing. I suppose that it would be name dropping to mention that I had my brothers bachelor party at John Chamberlain's NY loft. Go figure!
Tuesday, May 17, 2011, 10:37:06 PM

this weeks stuff I try to restain myself and fail

2011-05-13T14:28:00.000-07:00

While we are on the subject of anonymity their are also those folks who even use their name but pretend to opinions that they do not subscribe to just to make the folks jumps--I call 'em as I see 'em.

http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=6925

I may wear a mask but also a name tag?
By philmusic

I guess I do this process in reverse as I use my real name for all my stylistic efforts. Serious, funny, and/or whatever- see here:

Phil's playa

Phil Fried

Oh Don't forget Fritz Kreisler who composed numerous works he attributed to others.
Wednesday, May 11, 2011, 1:43:27 PM
____________________________
http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=6926

oh please....
By philmusic

""I think it's wonderful that you don't respond to popular music..."

Of course this assumes that the comments made were not just for effect.

That said I can't say that its wonderful that political skill is privileged over common sense.

Phil Fried Phil's I'd rather be wrong page
Wednesday, May 11, 2011, 9:48:33 PM

_______________________________
http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=6923

art hurts as we all do
By philmusic

Ratzo:

In America the question of government support of the arts is a tough call these days and public support of commercial institutions like bars and clubs is perhaps even a tougher sell. Also one could be worried that any board or committee to oversee jazz would do just as much harm as good. On a hopeful note as institutions die new ones pop up.

I hate classical radio and NPR which has the highest paid executives in the non profit world. Most of the music played has nothing to do with mainstream classical music at all--light classics not much opera tons of forgettable guitar music etc.

As for ML pointing out a pattern exists doesn't explain the social mechanics of how or why it happens in each particular case. Besides social laws were meant to be broken. Anyway I think you both get it wrong as there are plenty of jazz musicians working as academicians. Of course one could argue if they are authentic.

Phil Fried Phil's this time a long post page
Tuesday, May 10, 2011, 5:01:15 AM

forgoing the inside

2011-05-09T13:42:00.000-07:00

Its been a number of years since I left the world of the insiders to fly solo. This decision of mine created consternation among my former supporters. At the time I didn't realize that such a decision would reflect on those who would be associated with me. Turning down important awards and gatekeepers has its price. Still from time to time it does pain me to know that I will not be considered for grants jobs etc. because of that decision. The insiders will have it period. Yet whatever I do get I know its mine.

see below

Dear Composer,[yes I do have a name]

Thank you so much for your application to the Composer In Residence Program. We received a total of 173 entries from a diverse and talented range of composers. Unfortunately your work was not selected to proceed to Round 2 of the selection process.

On behalf of my colleagues at the Opera Company of Philadelphia, Gotham Chamber Opera, and Music-Theatre Group, best wishes in your future work and thank you for your interest.

Sincerely,

Kyle Bartlett

more NMB no one comments about what one would think they would

2011-05-06T14:03:00.000-07:00

The odd thing here is this an open secret? Or is it?

http://newmusicbox.com/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=6904

oh--thats how you do it.
By philmusic

"...If you don't care enough about your work to spend a little extra to get the word out how can you expect the New York Times, or Pitchfork, or The Wire to care enough to review your work? ..."

You mean I can't get reviewed unless I pay for it? Whats is the going rate? Do bad reviews cost more?

Phil's ready to buy a review page
Monday, May 02, 2011, 4:30:25 PM

note I retracted some angry comments at DS this week I do lose patience when folks pretend to speak for all composers.

NMB things heat up

2011-04-29T18:05:00.000-07:00

well young pigs grunt like old ones before them --anyway the straw man argument has been pretty successful for artists these last few decades --you know those bad academic composers keep us down by forcing us to be merely rich and successful etc etc. This is ironic as 2 other generations of conservative composers built their careers on the exact same platform. So now its their turn to get the "treatment" from others.

Again folks who would run screaming from the room if Schoenberg were performed take up his worst aspect--there is an active enemy that must be stopped. On the other hand in Schoenberg's case it was true.

Matt M plays coy and then is upset that he can't set the rules of the, or our, alleged "conversation" What MM provides is merely posturing not insight or process.

http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=6897

he did it...
By philmusic

"...the current status quo ...in academic classical music ...

Well Matt I happen to know a great many composers and songwriters who have an explanation that excludes them from being part of the, or a, or somebody's "status quo."

Unfortunately it always seems that the problem is somebody else. Isn't it?

Phil Fried

Phil's status conscious page

Wednesday, April 27, 2011, 8:27:22 PM

oh?
By philmusic

"Hit me up if you have any specific thoughts on what we're actually talking about..."

Matt: If you don't understand my point thats fine, I get that a lot actually. My interest is music not in composers artist statements.

Phil Fried Phil sell out page

Thursday, April 28, 2011, 3:10:27 PM

I live here too
By philmusic

"...Then why are you chiming in on a blog/discussion that's largely about the artistic process?..."

Matt I don't believe that an artist's process and an artistic statement are the same thing. I'm interested in technique not so much in editorial. So I can't agree with your description of this thread.

[Even if what you say is true I am merely trying to direct our conversation to an aspect of your ideas that I find more congenial, just as you are-yet it seems that a middle ground is out of the question.]

["..., but I'm open to criticisms.." Evidently not.]
Phil Fried Phil's highly technical page

Friday, April 29, 2011, 10:15:39 AM

I live here too
By philmusic

Friday, April 29, 2011, 10:15:39 AM

______________________________________________

http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=6901

Note Mclaren is jesting or is unaware that many music schools no longer support a cannon and in fact teach more classes in pop music that in classical music.

dare I say it?
By philmusic

Of course some new works take time to catch on.

Generally speaking those few who "get it" before everyone else are sometimes referred to

as the avant-garde.

Phil Fried Phil's pretty obvious page

Wednesday, April 27, 2011, 6:05:01 PM

NMB conversation?--hardly

2011-04-23T15:22:00.000-07:00

Here is the point folks--there is no conversation folks just express their own prejudices and motivations which in the end are team dependent. Sorry to say its even worse than I thought as It boils down to who has the authority to make the call - avant garde or not or if - and if that call would be giving up their own authority to say it.-

Needless to say it does not just have to do with who was first but also to do with authenticity of the art.

DS simply has nothing lose and everything to gain.

http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=6889

hhhmmm
By philmusic

It seems that folks around here seem less interested in discussing music than in discussion about how music might be discussed. Frankly I'm disgusted.

That said my first blog post was on this subject in 1990.

Phil's first post NY Times

Phil Fried Phil's on garde page
Tuesday, April 19, 2011, 1:39:56 PM

Labels and fables
By philmusic

Its this really; no one wants to admit that someone, somewhere, is doing more important work than they are. Why should they when there is every advantage not to?

Phil Fried. no sonic prejudice Phil's very avant garde page
Wednesday, April 20, 2011, 10:09:04 AM

hmmm conversation?
By philmusic

It seems to me that the quality of the avant-garde is not just being first with new materials.

Phil's other other page
Saturday, April 23, 2011, 6:27:08 PM

____________________________________________________________
The point here is that I suggest that the composers in question are perhaps being dishonest. That doesn't square with the literalist's of the academic world who feel the not just to take all artists statements at face value but to privilege that statement over the music itself.
Most of these posts are by the same 3 people having no conversation.

http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=6848

just a thought..
By philmusic

These folks are creating a music whose tropes are not usually associated with "classical" music. So even if there is no claim of rebellion, a case can be made that there is a strong declaration.

Phil Fried's page for old fogies
Thursday, March 31, 2011, 3:34:13 AM

why blame the composers?
By philmusic

The phenomenon of the artist or composer of the moment has been with us for some time, though they have also been referred to as "the savior of modern music,"etc, etc. By their very nature their short term impact drowns out other voices. If no one remembers them now, even after a decade, that's no worse a record than many other artists.

Currently all styles of music are being created; why then blame a composer for their own success?

If there is any complacency in the arts I would direct that criticism at gatekeepers and their institutions who give the "artist of the moment" their time. Too many times I have heard gatekeepers say--"anything but serial music."

Phil Fried, no sonic prejudice.

Phil's I'm still a curmudgeon page
Sunday, April 17, 2011, 3:26:13 PM

this weeks NMB--noth'in special

2011-04-15T13:46:00.000-07:00

http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=6868

right to the point
By philmusic

Remember Ratzo there is; authenticity, the politics of authenticity. and just plain politics.

Phil Fried

Phil needs a kickstart
Sunday, April 10, 2011, 11:51:12 AM
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=6852

hmmmm?
By philmusic

Personally Dan I don't understand your post at all.

Art form--bad?

You mention Bernstein but neglect to point out that Bernstein himself was a purveyor of Jazz/classical cross over music, and it could be argued that it was his best music too. It is his music that I love the best.

Perhaps you refer to cross over music that like oil and water refuses to jell and by the way makes it pretty easy to say;--this is the jazz part --this is the classical---this is improvisatory etc. Even if it entertains it doesn't add up,

I get that.

On the other hand there is Ralph Shapey who used the big band sound as a gateway into new music.

That's different.

Phil Fried Phil needs a kickstart
Saturday, April 09, 2011, 7:16:19 PM

NMB Phil talks tough

2011-04-09T16:17:00.000-07:00

Personally I don't understand David's post at all. Art form--bad?

He mentions Bernstein but neglects to point out that Bernstein himself was a purveyor of Jazz/classical cross over music, and could be argued that it was his best music too. It his music that I love the best anyway--his Broadway stuff. Perhaps he refers to cross over music that like oil and water refuses to jell and makes it pretty easy to say--this is jazz--this is classical---this is improvisatory etc. Yet it doesn't add up, even if it entertains.
I get that. On the other hand there is Ralph Shapey who used the big band sound as a gateway into new music.

That's different.

Again MCL doesn't get who happens to be on the same page, and ties together folks who in fact have nothing to do with each other.

http://newmusicbox.com/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=6852

Tradition whose tradition?
By philmusic

Music is a living thing. So much recent historiography seems to reflect self interest rather than a search for truth. Then again why not--folks got to eat. I have pointed out before that music history is just as likely to be written by the "losers" as by the "winners."

As an improvisor I insist on choosing my own history. Then again improvisation is the one subject I never studied formally

Phil's Page

PS I always thought that it was bad manors to correct grammar in blog posts-except my own.
Sunday, April 03, 2011, 1:41:41 PM

This weeks nmb

2011-04-02T11:56:00.000-07:00

I think it might be more interesting to mention what I did not comment on--anyway My puff piece comment drew a personal note from a composer--who I don't think gets what it takes to write something like that. In addition the criticism was meant as a compliment because of the fallacy, sold out Schoenberg performances aside, that angst is what scares audiences away. But my main point with this stuff is that since in America cultural significance only comes with money and popular success some folks are proposing that composers emulate David Bowie. Songs, not compositions. Theater and art not sound. Of course lots of editorial.

http://newmusicbox.com/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=6848

just a thought..
By philmusic

general confusion
By philmusic

Most folks do judge books by their covers. A short trip to any school will also show that folks who dress alike will hang out together It's also a good bet that they listen to the exact same music.

Is it any different as adults?

In most circumstances its not hard to identify the artists in a room because they want to be identified as artists. On the other hand there is a difference between being a fashion model and being a fashion leader--or is there?

Just ask Eric WHITACRE

Phil Fried

Phil's superfecial page

Monday, March 28, 2011, 7:32:01 PM

__________________________________________
http://newmusicbox.com/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=6840

Why complain about a puff piece?
By philmusic

I agree that composers must have freedom to create their works. It also follows that the listener must have the freedom to create their own perceptions about said works.

Past the initial moment it is impossible for a composer to control how their work is perceived.

Phil's Puff Page
Thursday, March 24, 2011, 6:16:51 PM

Phil gets quoted! Must have said something right...

2011-03-23T15:16:00.000-07:00

http://newmusicbox.com/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=6834

This weeks nmb

2011-03-18T14:52:00.000-07:00

http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=6826

You know how DS bugs me. Even more when his facts are all wrong. Robert Schumann not political? Didn't he create an organization called the Davidsbund to fight the philistines? Most important here is that he created musical characters, that is character pieces -these were instrumental works mind you --that reflected the the aims of his society. If that's not political I don't know what is. By the way if you don't think your work is important quit.

A comment
By philmusic

"..yet we can't heal an open wound or build shelter..." .

This is not the first nor will it be the last comment pointing out art's lack of utility in the face of human tragedy.

How wrong you are. Art provides solace, hope and healing.

Long after the rubble has been cleared art will bring the remembrance and the forgetting.

Phil's Page

____________________________________
http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=6824

Perhaps I had more to say here my problem was with Dennis- ML is the same spouting off stuff he read that makes no sense. The odd thing is that ML doesn't get that George Lewis's comments are directed at all the composers he professes to love.

Well its about time...
By philmusic

"...humans seem to have an inextinguishable hunger for the arts.."

Finally something we can agree on.

Phil's agreeable page

_____________________________________________
http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=6822

Not sure how to answer as Ratzo has still not replied to my other posts--ok it seems as if he is looking for answers its just that he is not so forthcoming himself--time will tell.

I love the AACM
By philmusic

AACM

Phil Fried, no sonic prejudice

Phil's improvisation page
Sunday, March 13, 2011, 2:31:44 PM

oppsey
By philmusic

Are you suggesting that improvisation and composition are synonymous?

Ratso, if I may call you that, I rename my page link for every post depending on the topic at hand. Sometimes as commentary or to make a point. Sometimes even as a joke.

Actually I do think that they are different skills as for me composition involves refection and improvisation is instantaneous.

For my specific comments on that look at my lesson page or here: Phil's other page

Phil Fried
Wednesday, March 16, 2011, 10:27:07 AM

ok its Thursday

2011-03-10T14:03:00.000-08:00

http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=6815

Its the usual suspects this week mouthing off and being pedantic generally to prove that they are right and smart and so above it. Haters all. They say things but give nothing!!!

Mark presents generalizations that are inconstant --people born in the 90's like the Beatles melody and at the same time they listen to and support a popular music without melody.--do they long for the good old days of hoop skirts etc as it seems that Mark does or is their pop music unrepresentative? How can he extrapolate from his small sample? Further he suggests that the only way to understand this conflict is the buy and read his book. Not likely. I have already stated that motion music is more akin to pop music than classical music. Phil and Colin replied with big ideas that seem to trump Mark--yet fall flat. Thats because they are not talking about the same thing-what they say is true but not for the music that Mark is talking about songwriting verses composition.

Laura Nyro
By philmusic

Laura is the only pop singer I know who used a lot of tempo changes in her work. Her album "New York Tenderberry" has some songs with a lot of rubato. At the time she was considered self indulgent for this. Unfortunately perhaps she still is. All the cover recordings of her works leave these tempos changes out.

Sigh.

Phil Fried

Phil's Page
Monday, March 07, 2011, 8:22:05 PM

...but not for me
By philmusic

"...It is our global folk rhythm, our collective minimalist composition that weaves its way through most popular music with endlessly subtle variations of timbre and tempo..."

Not sure what you mean by subtle.

Or our for that matter.

Phil Fried
Phil's extremely contrarian page
Wednesday, March 09, 2011, 1:33:20 PM

really?
By philmusic

If you need to question what works or does not in art the scientific approach of true or false is irrelevant.

Art makes its own rules.

No sonic prejudice.

Phil Fried Phil's Page
Thursday, March 10, 2011, 3:15:09 PM

something to say--NMB

2011-03-04T16:06:00.000-08:00

http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=6804

one answer
By philmusic

"..So what is the best way to maximize the time and space that we do have?..."

This is a hard one Frank. Especially as I have gone through times when I could not work because of illness. I think this answer might have some resonance for folks.

If you don't know yourself... find out.

Phil's if you can't have self knowledge at least enjoy your delusions page
Monday, February 28, 2011, 8:16:41 PM

This weeks nmb and sequenza21 posts

2011-02-25T13:40:00.000-08:00

Ok So I joke...sorry

http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=6792

simpatico
By philmusic

I compose because its David Coll's job.

Phil Fried

Whats left of Phil's site
Saturday, February 19, 2011, 6:40:31 PM
_______________________________________

By philmusic
"...I see a historical time-line. Miles Davis versus Tom Scott, The Mothers of Invention versus The Fugs, James Brown versus Sly Stone—there's something to it..."

Well not for me. Perhaps if you want to stress the inclusive nature of jazz --everybody fits in somewhere--perhaps. A Closer examination of your examples I think will show that geography is not destiny.

Besides did we forget Chicago? What coast are they? Or Brazil for that matter.

Phil Fried

Phil's Mid-west page

I forgot to mention...

Mr. Harris if your going to quote my post in your blog "geography as destiny" you might at least take the trouble to answer my post. On the other hand if it is your intention just to report your doings that's fine just make it clear.

Phil Fried

Phil's pretty easy to ignore page

I forgot to mention...

Mr. Harris if your going to quote my post in your blog "geography as destiny" you might at least take the trouble to answer my post. On the other hand if it is your intention just to report your doings that's fine just make it clear.

Phil Fried

Phil's pretty easy to ignore page

_____________________________
http://www.sequenza21.com/2011/02/what%E2%80%99s-wrong-with-the-arts-well-it%E2%80%99s-not-the-artists/comment-page-1/#comment-25640

Phil Fried says:

February 22, 2011 at 7:26 pm

“..And these groups are misbehaving. They are overly-conservative, subject to “group think” and so worried about budgets that they forget that bad art hurts budgets far more than risk-taking does…”
Armondo–I think you misread this article. Michael Kaiser is taking the gatekeepers to task for not taking risks. I have to agree. Especially as an opera composer who has completed 4 opera and not 1 performance. Ok parts of my 5th are on youtube, and did quite well. On the other hand its not very easy to get to these folks attention. Even though it seems that Mr. Kaiser is only aware of artists as or more important than himself he questions it. The problem is that the local attention gained by the “artists of the moment” can simply drowned out other more artistic voices.
Who can change that?

philip fried says:

February 22, 2011 at 11:31 pm

“…This is the future. No whining aloud…”
Chris: I’m no shrinking violet and I do have my own opera company.OperaBob. Yet as a serial composer and a free jazz improviser the success of the composers mentioned above, except for perhaps one, have no particular resonance for me. Period. So the trends are not with me. I fight by working.
You misunderstand why I mentioned my “unproduced” work.
Not to close a door rather to open one. I thought that someone might want to try it. Why not? Stranger things have happened.
Why change the subject and make this about me? Whine or not. I stand by my above observations.
Actually Chris the answer to my question of who can change the attitude of the gatekeepers –its the gatekeepers themselves.

Phil Fried says:

February 23, 2011 at 5:47 pm

Ultimately Chris we agree as to what must happen. I must ask you to allow me to keep my own understanding of why and how it happens. My experience may be untypical and perhaps my understanding wrong-but its mine. Besides…
Living composers trajectory is still in flux. Anything can happen.

Last week,

this week nmb

2011-02-19T09:32:00.000-08:00

http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=6784

The issue is simple there is a lot of pretense on the net NMB too. Sorry

Ah yes good fun
By philmusic

On the other hand its just another instance of the internet pretending to be a dialogue.

Phil Fried

Phil's monologue page

__________________________________
http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=6793

Mr. Harris is a working musician so naturally opinions might be colored by the needs of the profession. That is to be among these folks you have to have an uncritical view of what they do, their ideas, and their opinions.

By philmusic
"...I see a historical time-line. Miles Davis versus Tom Scott, The Mothers of Invention versus The Fugs, James Brown versus Sly Stone—there's something to it..."

Well not for me. Perhaps if you want to stress the inclusive nature of jazz --everybody fits in somewhere--perhaps. A Closer examination of your examples I think will show that geography is not destiny.

Besides did we forget Chicago? What coast are they? Or Brazil for that matter.

Phil Fried

Phil's Mid-west page
Friday, February 18, 2011, 1:31:28 PM

Anna Nicole and the muralization of opera

2011-02-13T06:52:00.000-08:00

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/13/arts/music/13anna.html?_r=1&ref=music
Of course the rehearsal are closed --this was the directive at the last meeting in California of the gatekeepers.
Why not? This is certainly not about the composer--who? Rather it is an attempt to create a fashionable event Any leaks would spoil it. It has nothing else other than surprise to show for it. Of course it will be an artistic failure. Done deal that. Yet as a mural it could be a success.

What do I mean by muralization?

This work was created, and if produced "correctly," should attract the fashionable folk. That is the part of traditional opera that will be maintained. The Opera opening as an event of fashion. That is everything is there but the content. The title alone is seen as worth the price of admission. This is the same as the faux political works coming from America. As for content this work is one of many holding actions filling a slot for new music that isn't new. No wonder they don't want critics spoiling the fun and perhaps keeping the important folks from showing up. At least Opera singers can reasonable replicate Anna's figure.

I doubt they would want to replicate her voice.

This weeks NMB round ups

2011-02-11T16:07:00.000-08:00

I suppose my irritation is showing, again! Whats with Rob anyway? Probably a fine book but his spin is so incredibly self serving a lot like DS again--this will all be forgotten after its release. Anyway give me a break-- Pleaseeeeeesss--. Can you imagine anyone claiming "risk" for offering added benefits to their subjects? What does he mean by "our"?

http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=6772'

imagine that
By philmusic

"...they have all been excited about having their pieces included in such a compendium..."

Who wouldn't?

Phil Fried

Phil's I've been trying to sell out for years but no one will make me an offer page

Phil Fried appears as a composer in yet another compilation

2011-02-08T16:58:00.000-08:00

Phil gets recorded--again--that makes 2

Phil Fried appears as a composer in yet another compilation

My latest collection of NMB and Sequenza 21 round ups.

2011-01-28T15:15:00.000-08:00

Some more posts on these same topics--I get the last word it seems --I told Steve about the discussion so he could chime in. Milton is and was much more than described in NMB.

Well its been a stressful week. I'm afraid that I'm not finding much in NMB these days to agree with besides Frank. So here we go...

http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=6764

some would follow
By philmusic

As someone who believes in that sound, his sound, the loss is immeasurable.

For my personal thoughts, some of them anyway, look here: Phil's Blog

Phil Fried

http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=6732

When life gives you lemons make lemonade!
By philmusic

So that's why I compose serial music.

Phil Fried

Phil's happy page
Saturday, January 15, 2011, 10:34:47 PM

http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=6757

Why complain?
By philmusic

The day I get two positive reviews in the Washington Post on the same day will be a happy day for me.

Phil Fried

Phil Fried's reviewers welcome home page
Friday, January 28, 2011, 10:01:34 AM

Now that you mention it...
By philmusic

"...Brevity is Not the Soul of Anything.."

True Kyle.

Except for blog posts.

Phil Fried

Phil's brief page

______________________________
http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=6746

Why not?
By philmusic

"..the book and subsequently this column won't emphasize my own biases.."

Robb, why not? I can't think of any work of non fiction that does not in the end reveal the authors biases. What would make any like book rewarding to me are the insights filtered through the lens of the authors point of view. Perhaps I'm being a Devil's advocate but your age restrictions already creates one such lens.

Why not embrace it?

Phil Fried

Phil's Bias against Bias's page
Tuesday, January 25, 2011, 11:08:27 PM
______________________________________________
http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=6752

I think we know this one
By philmusic

"..at times I want to revert to the simplest answer: the stork..."

Certainly it's more ingratiating to tell folks what they want to hear rather than the truth.

Phil Fried

________________________

http://www.newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=6749

much longer than you think
By philmusic

"In the new business paradigm, the platform used to deliver the message is sadly more influential than the message or the messenger."

Frank, in one guise or another being a "middleman" has been around for centuries. There is always money to be made selling a thing or service that someone else makes. [This idea includes transportation for what is an operating system but a highway with tolls.]

Phil Fried Phil's retail Page
Tuesday, January 25, 2011, 7:26:06 AM
________________________________________________

DS avoids the question of the American Opera Projects connection with Dfelson whether they met or not. Most important for DS's is acceptance and celebration of the "gatekeepers being in charge of art" paradigm.

http://www.newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=6714

Where are the composers?
By philmusic

After looking at these sites I must agree with Dennis. They just don't seem inclusive of the kind of music I compose. This post raises a larger point. It is obvious that gatekeepers are driving this bus not the composers.

That's wrong.

Phil Fried

Phil's gate keeper page
Wednesday, January 05, 2011, 10:31:32 AM

protest too much?
By philmusic

In truth contributors are always fans. Besides, their are many organizations out there who will act as "fiscal agents" to help raise funds for artists. Some use paypal. That the above web sites don't seem geared to my music is obvious but so what? For me it would be about the cost/convenience. Not the "coolness."

As to my comments about "gatekeepers" this was not about the fan funding sites but rather about the difference between their use by, say, a individual composer, or by an institution. Even for myself Phil Fried is one thing and operabob is another. That said its hard not to notice that these sites seem to follow the mainstream to the letter.
Phil Fried
Phil's page

Discovered at Schrafft's
By philmusic

"..fully funded through the miracle of Kickstarter.."

I have complained about the veracity of the internet before. The word "miracle" in this context would imply that you had nothing as a composer. Oh, except your Rolodex, sorry, your fellow twitterers.

Your claim that your fiscal agent was the source of your success is misleading.

Phil's fully funded site
Saturday, January 15, 2011, 12:36:36 PM

blame it on twitter
By philmusic

It makes sense for a composer in NY commissioned by a California performing group to use the net for fund raising, yet isn't it Twitter that seems the likely hero here? Faster than snail mail less intrusive then a mass e-mails? More italicized than a facebook event? Also a twitter friend group is by choice isn't it?

You have to get the word out before you can collect the cash.

Phil

Phil who must learn to twitter more page

Dfelsen: I apologize If I did not get the irony of your post. So many times irony isn't irony at all, and I have never read a post from you before to compare. Worse still many posters here continue to pretend that their private party is open to all. Again my apologies as well.
Monday, January 17, 2011, 1:40:48 PM
________________________________________________
http://www.newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=6662

hmmmm?
By philmusic

people like Mendelssohn and Gounod and Weber and Glinka simply wouldn't cut it today. They'd be considered mediocre

Two things:

As I remember a technological advance is not the same as an artistic advance.

If anyone thinks that some of today's most "successful" composers aren't "mediocrities" I've got this bridge for sale. Cheap.

It's also available for lease with no money down.

Phil Fried, who thinks that speculating about dead composers is not very interesting.
Sunday, November 21, 2010, 12:21:07 PM
___________________________________________

http://www.newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=6652

Right to the point?
By philmusic

Is modesty dead?

Evidently.

Phil Fried

Phil's self effacing page
Tuesday, November 09, 2010, 5:41:32 PM

He saw through my flimsy prevarication
By philmusic

"..First, I believe that modesty is highly overrated as a virtue..."

No further comment is necessary.

Phil Fried

Phil's perhaps not so self effacing page
Wednesday, November 10, 2010, 6:50:27 PM

tarred with the same brush
By philmusic

"..that the perpetual link at the bottom of each post is only sometimes the most pretentious and self-serving portion..".

Yes quite true. I know because I've been blogging for quite some time now.

Because of the incredibly low bar for veracity on the net, still true to this day, I still take the trouble of giving my real name and my web page so folks would know for certain who was making the comments.

Phil Fried

Phil's page which was started on aol 1996
Thursday, November 11, 2010, 7:21:39 PM

_________________________________
http://www.sequenza21.com/2011/01/4743/

My point here is that the discussion of the Babbitt article is red herring. Mr. Bailey does not mention it--only the supposed comment.

philip fried says:

January 22, 2011 at 12:17 pm

I’m afraid that the Babbitt misquote leads one to the conclusion that Mr. Bailey’s reviews will now and always be completely predictable along stylistic lines.
Phil Fried, no sonic prejudice

Why? Why is it that I am so put out by DS's posts?

2011-01-26T16:00:00.000-08:00

From the very first post I had a problem.

So its this: anyone who contends a universal experience from their personal life might have some insight. On the other hand anyone who portrays a personal career trajectory as a universal experience will always miss the mark.

The constant speaking for others as if we were all on the same team or in the same boat is wrong and personally offensive. The expectation that his personal and professional concerns are are own. Further we are also expected to accept DS as our representative not based on his music but on his position as a professor of composition. Something that he naturally expects we all aspire too. The transparent plugging of his benefactors. Or the transparent political and self aggrandizing nature of the posts. Worse for me is the constant avoidance of the separation of what is due DS (not much) and what is due his position (everything). Since his career is successful his music must successful. For example he says he is a great improviser. But who got to vote on that? In fact every musical weakness is portrayed as a strength. Why? Because he gets the opportunity. Opportunities we folks can't get.

So opportunity is better than the art.

Without the job he is just another Joe Composer.

I admire leaders who take risks not passengers in a bus driven by the gatekeepers.

old post 29

2011-01-18T16:09:00.001-08:00

Since when has classical music been a freak show?

Pretty much always. Sure its not the whole story by any means, but check two things.

1. The Classical charts and CD music sales
Album sales--the freak of the week club--this week: Opera Mom.
Remember David Healthgot?

     2.   Critical (media) coverage.

This includes: Child prodigies, "how weird is this?" or" what the kids are doing" slanted articles, crossovers, fake compositions, newly discovered, or rediscovered, or found in a pile of junk, masterpieces, technology over art,, handicaps, politics, unique and strange, etc. etc. etc.

      3. Commercial music has become so central and New Music has been so marginalized that commercial books and commentators feel free to take the language of these arts and then pretend this "other music" did not exist. For example---NEW MUSIC SEMINARS, The book WHY I HATE NEW MUSIC doesn't even mention anything classical.   We have been defined out of existence. Yet the need for pop music to provide more than a good dance beat or clever lyrics persists.

What I'm talking about here is a similar concept. The point is this; the creation of sentimental favorites.
Cynically understanding that no one actually cares for art a reason to care about something must be invented.
Commercial Media, even ostensibly independent critics, can't avoid a "hook" that gives a story legs. Publicists are there to make more of this hay. Anyway, how many new music folks have them?

old post 28

2011-01-18T15:58:00.001-08:00

A question of relevance:

I remember a panel discussion reprinted in the AMC newsletter also on the net.. Where a composer and 2 leading music educators decried the persistence of traditional classical music --to paraphrase-- this was a retrograde force on education as it had no relevance to today's children -public school children that is One always forgets that when anyone mentions any education reform they mean public education reform. I was struck with how unanimous was there agreement on this subject. To say that times have changed is perhaps the point its self. In the 1950-1960 even 17 magazine covered classical music as well as popular music – no longer. But then again is it because mass market or nich market media no longer cover classical music does that make it irrelevant?

Consider do public school children rather lets say poor children have any choice in the matter? Is there not money to be made in these choices or lack thereof? The music industry does many wonderful things but it has a huge stake in popular music and every year music seems to get cheaper to produce as performing skills are emphasized less and less and technology used more and more thus increasing profits. With the Anteries machine it is no longer necessary to sing in tune to sing on a hit record.

What I mean is this; Technology can produce many wonderful things but its main focus with the top 40 is to make music cheaper and more profitable. The advent of music video made an advertisement the object itself.

Why has technological advances replaced artistic achieve in the public mind as the greater good?

Artistic achievement is rare, sporadic, and not always apparent or easy to understand, it doesn't get much press or make a lot of money either. Higher thinking skills are required to understand it. (Hmmm maybe PS students need some of those).

Technological advances are a constant, and as products are easy to understand and not only do they get constant press they are the signal and the “bus.” That is they are the medium (Flat screen HD TV) and the message as well (for our next segment--new laptops!!)- they are ubiquitous and almost inescapable. It also drives our economy even thought not many of these products are made in America anymore.

Every new upgrade means more expense but my conclusion is this; new technologies makes music cheaper and easier to produce thus increases profits. To achieve that end it has also reduced the value and meaning of composition. Today music compositions are just another computer file.

Recent trends in the arts are also against high artistic achievement. The recent trend in the arts world is that “High art” is just “another” of many styles. This fits in well with the music industry that for years has marketed popular music as “outsider art.” “If Mozart were alive today....”

If we consider the public mind in American terms as Barnum did, we love winners.
So, its obvious that technology wins and artistic and achievement loses.

Why then does it surprise anyone that those in the know (the NYT?) would drop all the composers who would hitch there wagon to the winning team? Of course the connection with technology and powerful pop music world are apparent.

old posts 27

2011-01-18T15:29:00.000-08:00

"It's time you and your new music brethren got it through your heads that by its very nature classical music, new and old, is and has always been an elite enterprise,"

Then again one might ask where we are talking about. The United States and UK? Perhaps. Canada, where pop musicians can be government supported through their radio? Europe? Certainly not today and even yesterday not entirely. Japan and Asia? I'm not sure about that one either.

Perhaps these other countries don't count. By the way, were their any Italian rock bands on the lists? That’s not snobbery that’s jingoism.

I remember how hard it was to convince kids of the fact that the Rolling Stones earned more money than your typical Orchestra member—they just wouldn’t believe it.

Also, there is a certain amount of controversy among “rock writers” over bands like ELP which are not considered “true” rock bands as they have too much “classical” technique.
So its ok to have an Ivey League degree in English literature and “rock” but if you have a performance degree in an instrument you can’t. Go figure.

Phil’s Page

Geographical complications

Not True! Toscanini, and through him, classical music was very popular in the 1940-1950.

An exception!

Not to sound nationalistic, but the strength of the American music scene is its variety and independence.

Misunderstandings can certainly happen when specific or professional knowledge collides with general perceptions. It’s the price we pay for an open forum.

Phil’s Page

Kyle, your comments make a lot of sense to me. Yet one form of ire continues for the non-university composer. Many grants and fellowships do not consider self- produced (un sponsored) public performances as important as a university sponsored concerts. Even if those university performances were by undergraduate ensembles who were required to perform and the audience required to be there. Sorry to say for some the self-producing composer, no matter how good, is just involved in vanity projects.
(not to mention jobs)

“That’s quite true, Colin, we’re not discussing how to raise children, but rather how gender is formulated and expressed in contemporary music.”

Actually William, that was not what Colin was discussing at all- rather that was what you were stating.

Phil’s Page

old posts 25

2011-01-18T15:26:00.000-08:00

Your blog can be viewed at http://classicallounge.com/Philmusic/blogs
NMB reply
By: Philip Fried Date: Jun 20, 2007 - 09:07 PM

Colin Holter has mentioned that music seems to lack room to experiment that other artistic mediums have.

"I am, [fond] of the appealing experiential qualities of another medium that music does not possess."

As I remember there is a whole industry of "classical" recordings that leave out the "boring" parts of Mozart, Beethoven etc, and excerpt only the "most memorable passages." Evidently for some even the classical mainstream is too taxing and not user friendly.

As I have mentioned before and in my site music lessons, we are very accepting of intellectualism in every art form-except for music. On one level its familiarity -- simply put more people can read text, than read music. For example; James Joyce is widely accepted as a writer, even among musicians, while Schoenberg is still a controversial figure. Go figure!

That said, I don't feel that music has any artistic or intellectual limitations.

Phil's page

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Join the Team!--NMB
By: Philip Fried Date: Jun 16, 2007 - 08:30 AM

Urban Renewal
By Frank J. Oteri

Tuesday, June 05, 2007, 1:44:04 PM

I spent the majority of last week in Charleston, South Carolina, where the 2007 Spoleto Festival USA was in full swing. This was only my third trip to Charleston, and my second during Spoleto. But this time around I witnessed firsthand what the festival's General Director Nigel Redden meant when—during a talk with the Music Critics Association of North America—he stated that the most appealing aspect of Spoleto to him was that it completely took over the entire town in a way that other, similar-type events like the Lincoln Center Festival (which Redden also oversees) could never hope to do.

Everywhere I went, I was reminded of both the Spoleto Festival USA proper and its humbler, more fringe-ish sibling, Piccolo Spoleto—a second festival, completely independent from its namesake, which happens every year at the same time and more than doubles the total number of cultural offerings available to audiences who happen to be in Charleston a few weeks prior to the beginning of summer. Virtually every storefront sported either this year's Spoleto poster, which reproduces the famous Chuck Close rendering of Philip Glass, or the luminous Piccolo Spoleto poster which reproduces a painting by local artist Elaine Berlin, or both. I was so entranced by Ms. Berlin's paintings that I bought one of them.

But I had an even bigger epiphany with the Philip Glass image. While I was having lunch with colleagues at the outdoor café of one of the local hotels and talking about music (what else), an elderly couple came up to us to ask a question. They had stayed overnight at the hotel to break up a long car ride back to New York from Florida and were wondering who that man was whose face seemed to be everywhere in Charleston. They figured out it was the Spoleto poster and assumed it had to be some sort of musician and since I was talking about music, they assumed I might know who it was. What remarkable publicity for a living composer! I believe that if more people were exposed to such images, more interest would be generated in this music almost instantaneously.

I've often commented that the reason everyone in America knows Britney Spears is because it is impossible not to: her image literally saturates the American landscape. Imagine if the landscape of America could similarly be saturated with an image of an important living American composer. This week, at least in Charleston, it is. Now, perhaps, is the time to traipse across the rest of the country and put up posters of Steven Mackey, Joan Tower, John Corigliano, Chen Yi, Ornette Coleman, and countless other folks whose music could and should be reaching more folks than it's currently reaching.

can't agree more
By davidcoll - coll@berkeley.educoll@berkeley.edu

i've written a couple times on NMB a flippant comment, basically that it all just comes down to money- this is definitely connected to advertising. Spending time now in paris, and seeing in other cities here in europe the much bigger budget for advertising, i think it helps generate this curiousity that you mention....studies have probably shown that it really doesn't make a difference, and that no one will go to the concert anyway...

Wednesday, June 06, 2007, 6:38:54 AM

By Daniel Wolf - djwolf@online.dedjwolf@online.de

I don't quite get it: a musical "urban renewal" is to take the form of exporting a group of composers associated with East Coast urban centers (your list: Steven Mackey, Joan Tower, John Corigliano, Chen Yi, Ornette Coleman)? It strikes me that the more urgent task is recognizing and giving adequate support to local activity than seeking validation and gentrification through an establishment seal of approval. The life of music is in its diversity, and the life of our cities is likewise found in their distinctive identities, which is a natural pairing of common interests.

Wednesday, June 06, 2007, 7:23:03 AM

By Colin Holter - cholter2@uiuc.educholter2@uiuc.edu

I agree with Frank 110% (although I too am a little skeptical of his list of composers to "push").

Wednesday, June 06, 2007, 8:30:41 AM

Poster Children
By Frank J. Oteri - editor@newmusicbox.orgeditor@newmusicbox.org

I knew I was heading toward deep murky waters when I compiled what to me was a somewhat random list of names which I spelled out in the essay above mostly to make a larger point.

Please remember that I ended this brief ethnically and genderally diverse group with the caviat "and countless other folks." The five I chose are all folks whose music has been getting a lot of circulation nationally as of late which is why I thought mentioning them was not inappropriate.

To claim the list is East Coast-centric is also a bit disingenuous. Indeed Mackey is currently based in Princeton but he was born in Germany and grew up in California. Chen Yi spent time in New York but was born in China and is now based in Kansas City. Etc. Etc.

But, once again, I never said that these are the five folks we should be toting at the expense of everyone else. Why is it that whenever a composer in our community starts reaching a larger audience there's a backlash? Are we that self-centered? I've often said anyone's success in this racket is success for all of us and I really believe that to this day. So, let's starting putting up those posters already!

By philmusic - philmusic@aol.comphilmusic@aol.com

“Why is it that whenever a composer in our community starts reaching a larger audience there's a backlash? Are we that self-centered?”

Dear Frank:

True, some of us composers are self-centered, but that is not all of it. Colleges and Universities are by their very nature competitive. So, some of this has to do with our “professional” allegiances which are not unlike the way we support sports teams. Of course we root for “our” team and want the other teams to lose and their players to mess up. When another team is successful, even if we like some of the players, our team is not happy. Even if our team always “loses” and another team always “wins” that just makes our support for our team even stronger as well as dislike for the winners. That their doesn’t seem to be any referees in the game, only gatekeepers, does not help. This may not be rational or true of course. If true, it certainly doesn’t create the best environment for new music but for many it’s just the way it is. Also on another issue many suspect that “the larger audience” has nothing to do with audience acceptance at all but rather with “gatekeeper” acceptance.

Being a disinterested independent thinker is harder than it looks.

Dr. Phil

Phil’s Page

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culture war(s)
By: Philip Fried Date: May 27, 2007 - 06:20 PM

Sometime back G.H. Brown misunderstood a posting of mine about the "culture wars." What he thought I was talking about was the war between high and low culture rather than the social political war over the so called "good" and the "evil".

At the time I was a little surprised at his remarks as I knew of no such war. Anyway, if there was or is a war between high and low culture in the arts it is only in Mr. Brown's mind as a war implies a struggle and popular culture overwhelmed everything in its path years ago. Also, a war has allies and enemies and I don't see this occurring. Rather everyone is lining up to cross over and to work with pop stars or to be pop stars if they can, The, lets call them the "classical fringe," who might constitute an enemy to the current trends are so marginalized that they don't exist (if they actual exist at all).

Most professionals can read the writing on the wall and if they don't need the current arena of public life for themselves they want their students to succeed so they play ball too.   Of course the trends will change again as they always do. For now popular culture is king. By the way, I love it too only I don't do cross-over--well I did it once--please don't tell!

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grandstanding and intimidation
By: Philip Fried Date: May 12, 2007 - 10:05 AM

The reason why I am reprinting this nasty "flame attack" on myself is this; is seems that my post was not carefully read nor was it understood (or perhaps it was understood too well) rather I was flamed for questioning a self appointed new music authority. Instead of addressing my points, the subject is changed to attack the "straw man" who would be left out in the cold if NMB becomes merely a commercial promotional site. The main point remains; is NMB a non profit advocate or is it a commercial music promoter?

By the way if this is what is meant by "Expressing an honest negative criticism" we could all do without it.

Eight is Not Enough
By Frank J. Oteri

Tuesday, May 01, 2007, 1:26:23 PM

Today is a special day here at NewMusicBox: We're celebrating our eighth anniversary on line. It's hard to believe that we've been doing this for 96 months, 416 weeks, or 2,922 days, depending on how you're counting. But there's so much more to do.

Over the years, friends have said to me things like: How much longer can you keep this going? Aren't you going to run out of people to talk with? Aren't you going to have to start recycling ideas at some point? But no matter how long we've been doing this, it seems like we've still only scratched the surface. That's how much is going on out there. I know that for me, every month is still a process of discovery. And I hope that anyone reading this site feels the same way.

At the end of this week, the staff of NewMusicBox will burrow itself away for a day-long retreat to project site content for the coming year. But we'd also like to hear from you. What topics would you be interested in us developing further? Who should we focus on whom we have not spoken to yet? What other components would you be interested in seeing on this site? All suggestions are welcome.

Congrats!
By curioman - darren@curiomusic.com

Congratulations on eight years. Thank you so much for all you've done and brought to the the composer community. I can say for myself that some of the interviews you've done have changed my entire outlook on music. There are too many to mention, but I particularly liked the James Tenney interview and his ideas on form/sound vs. theme. I cannot say enough how invaluable your impact has been for me. I am so grateful for NewMusicBox. And I wish you another 8(0) or more incredible years!

As far as what I'd like to see... more Radar coverage (especially of Atlanta where a lot's going on! -- see AtlantaComposers.com :), more information on things like Creative Commons and how it can be used to our promotional advantage, more coverage of electronic distribution (how we can sell on eMusic, iTunes, etc.), new trends like crowdsourcing and online collaboration, oh, and how about off the wall things like contemporary music in Second Life?

A composer I'd like to see profiled is Patricia Van Ness. Thanks.

Tuesday, May 01, 2007, 2:36:07 PM

I'll Play You Mine if You'll Play Me Yours
By coreydargel - corey@automaticheartbreak.com

Happy birthday, NMBx!

Since you asked...

First, a couple of small things: Make the feature interviews available as video podcasts. Also, as a supplement to Counterstream Radio, create a weekly audio podcast or mp3-blog highlighting one or two pieces of music that composers have made available as free downloadable mp3s, along with commentary by NMBx contributors. Feature a variety of rotating curators who select the mp3s and comment on them.

Second, a bigger thing: Publish reviews!* Album and concert reviews could be written by composers and performers who serve on a rotating basis for a period of, say, three to four months every two years. Some readers may balk at the notion of composers and performers being “reviewed” by their peers, but this is common in other media; it’s more fun than reading a review by a detached “critic;” and it allows readers the context to understand more fully how individual composers/performers (and how composers/performers in general) think about music and respond to each other's music.

*I know, I know, there are worries that our community is too small and fragile to risk alienating anyone with a potentially critical review. On the other hand, passionate feelings and passionate points of view are lamentably rare in this magazine. A group of people with similar goals and experiences who are wary of, or discouraged from, expressing critical opinions about their peers’ work results in strained and ultimately insincere relationships. Expressing an honest negative criticism may, in fact, enhance and affirm the genuineness of a positive response. There are plenty of composers and performers out there who I think would be pleased to participate in such a project, as reviewers and reviewees.

Tuesday, May 01, 2007, 3:20:09 PM

Lurking for Seven
By mryan - mryan@choirworks.com

I'm really very grateful for NMB. I've been lurking here, reading posts for seven of those eight years and it is such a blessing to be able to hear so many different perspectives on the state of the art of music.

As far as subjects for the future of NMB, I have enjoyed and would love to read more features on the business side of the reality of living as a composer: building relationships, publishing, the commissioning process, starting a new music ensemble, marketing new music concerts, etc.

Here's to another 8 years (and more). All the best, M. Ryan Taylor

Tuesday, May 01, 2007, 3:26:12 PM

Interview request
By Chris Becker - beckermusic@yahoo.com

I'd love to see an interview with Greg Tate on this website.

Tuesday, May 01, 2007, 3:49:46 PM

NewMusicBox Birthday
By bob schneider - abschnei@aol.com

Happy birthday to you.i always enjoy visiting your site and learning from it. Keep up the great work! P.S. Reqest you consider interviews with Dan Asia,Duo46 ,Karl Korte and Jorge Liderman.

Tuesday, May 01, 2007, 4:14:34 PM

I'd like...
By dalgas - dalgas@speakeasy.net

A few more cover interviews with composers in slightly more out-of-the-way locales. Work's getting done every day in Jacksonville, Dubuque, Lexington, Flagstaff, Boise, Eugene, etc... It shouldn't all be terra incognita. Each of these places has composers with a story, one that I think would give a aspiring composers a lot of insight into possibilities for a life in music no matter where they are in the country, and not just in two or three of the largest metropolitan areas.

Steve Layton

Tuesday, May 01, 2007, 4:54:49 PM

Congratulations
By toddtarantino - todd@toddtarantino.com

Congratulations on your birthday. I second Corey's recommendation about reviews. I seem to recall NMBX reviewing new recordings a while back. Also wasn't there talk about the calendar returning at some point?

Tuesday, May 01, 2007, 7:35:56 PM

Peer Review
By Chris Becker - beckermusic@yahoo.com

One of the reasons I keep coming back to NMBx is because there are no reviews. Most musicians, dancers and artists I know don't read reviews or if they do don't treat them all that seriously. I'm all for more coverage of concerts, recordings and other composer related projects. But I personally don't want to see reviews on the site.

I think the passion the staff of NMBx has for music comes across in the quality of the writing, photos and coverage we've seen over the past several years. The Diamanda Galas interview really moved me (and moved me to explore my own Armenian roots) as did the archived interview with Leroy Jenkins.

I would ask for less chatter actually and more straightforward coverage. I'm not slagging critics - honestly, my own relationship to music criticism has changed dramatically over the past five years (i.e. I've actually gotten reviewed and seen both good and bad results of it). But I am not missing it on this website.

Wednesday, May 02, 2007, 12:24:11 PM

maybe not reviews...
By mmcginn - martin_mcginn@hotmail.com

but possibly a "round-up" or list of current releases, future releases, or releases we might have missed, etc. would be a nice addition to the site.

Congrats on 8 years.

Marty's Page

Wednesday, May 02, 2007, 12:55:23 PM

Sorry...one more...
By Chris Becker - beckermusic@yahoo.com

Yes. A round up sounds good. Especially if it focuses on members of the AMC.

And I like Corey's suggestion insofar as it opens the door to exposing the AMC's composer members to each others work via this website, NewMusicJukebox and Counterstream radio. Right now, these three sites sort of float along in their own bubbles - and a lot of the musicians being touted on these respective sites aren't necessarily (correct me if I'm wrong) AMC members. That's a weird disconnect - but thanks to the net, there are many creative ways to address this. And again, Corey offers some provocative suggestions in this regard.

Wednesday, May 02, 2007, 1:06:37 PM

Congratulations New Music Box!
By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com

Personally I love the music box's open forum for ideas the best, so perhaps a guest blogger or two to take the discussions in different directions might be interesting. Unfortunately many composers of my generation and later are not net savvy, or commercially recorded for that matter, so I think that too much focus on the “net life” would box out a lot of interesting artists. Anyway, the last thing that I would want is for the NMB to become a publicity machine for the new music powers that be.

Again congratulations.

Phil’s Page

Wednesday, May 02, 2007, 1:47:00 PM

Not-so-distant neighbors
By siconesis - ivan.sparrow@gmail.com

Congrats to all NMB staff and other people who have been involved in the making, sustaining and development of this beast (in a good way!).

I'm a composer from Mexico. I've noticed that generally when musicians here and in the U.S. look for what's going on abroad, there's a tendency to reach to the other side of the ocean and fail to hear to our north or south (depending where you are). There's plenty of interesting and important music and events going on both places, but there's no real communication.

I know NMB is a space intended for U.S. music, but I think we can now be beyond the notion of isolating musical communities. We are close neighbors and there's a lot we can share. I hope NMB will be interested in broadening its reach so it can enrich its own environment (that of north american music), and the same for us folks over here in Mexico. Maybe some beneficial ties can be established.

Greetings to all and happy birthday.

Ivan Sparrow (ivan.sparrow@gmail.com)

Friday, May 04, 2007, 1:52:32 PM

Net Savvy
By coreydargel - corey@automaticheartbreak.com

Unfortunately many composers of my generation and later are not net savvy... so I think that too much focus on the “net life” would box out a lot of interesting artists.

I wonder how these "many" composers were able to log on to the internet in the first place. Or perhaps they read print-outs of NMBx at their local library?

God forbid an internet magazine would actually take advantage of internet technology!

Perhaps you were joking.

Saturday, May 05, 2007, 10:51:49 AM

Nemesis adjunct...
By JKG - dialhead@mail.com

Yes, I like NewMusicBox, even if some of the diatribe in here gets a bit stuffy for my taste. I have been exposed to much interesting music, even if after listening to some pieces I found them dull and uninspiring. As a tonalist, I can certainly say however, that the struggle between holding fast to the past and that of rejecting the past in favor of the nihilistic present remains intact. Fortunately for some contributors, I owe much less to their composition teachers than they do (whether they appreciate that or not, or in any event feel reviled by my stance). There is much going on lately about how to reach audiences with serious music, and how the practitioners of serious music have so alienated them. This will continue to remain a genuine problem for the untalented, as most folks just aren't interested in hearing a glob of sounds for the sake of hearing a glob of sounds - no matter how many dissertations are written about the matter. NewMusicBox will continue to prove an invaluable source of getting past those hurdles, even if it means rightfully damning some "modern" music to abject obscurity.

Saturday, May 05, 2007, 2:13:20 PM

OUCH!
By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com

"I wonder how these "many" composers were able to log on to the Internet in the first place. Or perhaps they read print-outs of NMBx at their local library? God forbid an Internet magazine would actually take advantage of Internet technology! Perhaps you were joking."

Corey, so the race then, is only for the swift?

Many of the composers mentioned on this and other blog spaces actually have no real presence on the web and I also think they don't pay much attention to it either. Anyway, they don't seem to take part in the blogs. Rather it is their students and professional admirers as well as music industry folks (including publicists) and Universities who create and maintain a web presence for them. If you don't have that support then you don't have a presence --unless you are net savvy or hire someone.

As for the rest of us I think we are on the net, aren't we? :)

Phil's page

Monday, May 07, 2007, 5:43:32 PM

USPS to Online Magazines: Stop Promoting the Internet
By coreydargel - corey@automaticheartbreak.com

There are plenty of composers who make at least one of their pieces available as an mp3 download or streaming audio file on their websites. It is possible to do this without spending money, and with minimal knowledge of HTML, web design, etc. These audio files are then available to anyone with an internet connection and the know-how to click on a hyperlink, and it would be an extremely fun and educational project for NMBx to present a sort-of "curated" compilation of the millions of mp3s out there.

You argue that such a project discriminates against less web-savvy composers. Are you suggesting that composers who take the time to disseminate their music on the web should be punished because other composers choose not to take advantage of this technology? That seems a bit ridiculous, like arguing that we shouldn't listen to the radio because it discriminates against composers whose music has not been recorded.

Monday, May 07, 2007, 7:57:26 PM

By Colin Holter - cholter2@uiuc.edu

I'm with Dargel. The year is 2007. Get with it.

Monday, May 07, 2007, 11:38:51 PM

on topic
By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com

As the net rapidly becomes just another mainstream media outlet (as it seems the most strident here want) these folks are afraid that sites like this that might chose to remain independent and not subsumed into that comercial mainstream. Such sites would risk becoming relegated to the status of cable access TV that is; irrelevant to the big picture, not a "player". Then again, by choosing not to become just another cog in the wheel they might become something far more important. There is a difference between advocacy and promotion.

Wednesday, May 09, 2007, 5:15:06 PM

Comments: 0   Edit
Mr. Bell plays the violin
By: Philip Fried Date: Apr 13, 2007 - 11:02 AM
? By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com

“In fact, the whole thing was a publicity stunt concocted by the folks at the Washington Post.”

As a publicity stunt this is simply an artificial situation created to create “buzz” so the less said about it the better. If they want publicity from me they can pay me for it just like they paid Mr. Bell. I so dislike being taken advantage of. Phil’s Page
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newmusicbox reply
By: Philip Fried Date: Apr 13, 2007 - 11:01 AM

Absurd?

By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com

Some of the absurdity of this thread is related to the lack of interest in the central question of why Mr. Ferneyhough, and other composers as well, love the WWE? Is it because deep down us esoteric composition types are just “men/women of the people”? Or is it because American culture at its worst is really at its best? Perhaps as composers we find some resonance with the rigged and choreographed pageantry of the WWE? Maybe we like cheap thrills-I know I do.

A few years back some article on MENSA noted that many of its members were interested in GLOW -the gorgeous ladies of wrestling-- that made the news for about a half a second. Shocked am I that no one took my interest in Roller Derby seriously. Anyway a thread becomes absurd when s hijacked off the topic and into realm the of axe grinding. Me? Never!

Phil’s Page

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By: Philip Fried Date: Apr 4, 2007 - 08:02 AM

Oh, whatever! Phil Fried
By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com

Never is the entire history of what we today call classical music (old or new) has it ever been popular (populist) music. Never -- as in, not ever.

Not True! Toscanini, and through him, classical music was very popular in the 1940-1950.

Phil’s Page

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Geographical complications
By: Philip Fried Date: Mar 23, 2007 - 07:33 AM

By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com philmusic@aol.com

"It's time you and your new music brethren got it through your heads that by its very nature classical music, new and old, is and has always been an elite enterprise,"

Then again one might ask where we are talking about. The United States and UK? Perhaps. Canada, where pop musicians can be government supported through their radio? Europe? Certainly not today and even yesterday not entirely. Japan and Asia? I'm not sure about that one either.

Perhaps these other countries don't count. By the way, were their any Italian rock bands on the lists? That’s not snobbery that’s jingoism.

I remember how hard it was to convince kids of the fact that the Rolling Stones earned more money than your typical Orchestra member—they just wouldn’t believe it.

Also, there is a certain amount of controversy among “rock writers” over bands like ELP which are not considered “true” rock bands as they have too much “classical” technique. So its ok to have an Ivy League degree in English literature and “rock” but if you have a performance degree in an instrument you can’t. Go figure. Phil’s Page

Wednesday, March 21, 2007, 11:42:25 AM

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new music box etc.
By: Philip Fried Date: Feb 21, 2007 - 08:47 AM
I’m not Philip Fried, but I play him on TV. My point was not about hypnosis but about those folks who come to concerts and disturb others because they have their mind elsewhere for the duration. Not as an escape from the music mind you, but because of short attention spans. So look deep into my blog, look deeper, deeper, your mind is getting focused …so focused; you are in a state of utter relaxation yet awareness. You want, no need, to go to a new music concert pay cash and listen attentively. You will not leave even the music make you sleepy so sleepy. At the final applause you will applaud politely, find the composers and give them each $10,000 dollars. You will then wake up refreshed and remember everything.

I was going to say that I don’t use my real name because I’m a wanted man. Since I happen to be a composer who is going to buy that excuse?

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newmusic box response
By: Philip Fried Date: Feb 13, 2007 - 05:45 PM

How to listen, or not!
By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com philmusic@aol.com

On the other hand I was at a symphony concert and the women next to me kept searching through her purse looking for stuff for about 10 minuets-not taking anything out mind you -- just poking around it making distracting sounds. I wish she had left the concert, since she was not prepared to listen or care if others did. I think that if its not a professional situation there is nothing wrong with leaving a concert or a movie if you don't want to hear it (and this isn't the only reason why people leave concerts). Distracting or disrupting other who want to listen is another issue and I am against that. Personally, I would rather have people leave a performance of mine instead of them falling asleep or thinking "did I leave the bedroom light on?"

Phil's Page

Tuesday, February 13, 2007, 8:39:31 PM

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newmusic box response
By: Philip Fried Date: Feb 13, 2007 - 05:45 PM

How to listen, or not!
By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com philmusic@aol.com

On the other hand I was at a symphony concert and the women next to me kept searching through her purse looking for stuff for about 10 minuets-not taking anything out mind you -- just poking around it making distracting sounds. I wish she had left the concert, since she was not prepared to listen or care if others did. I think that if its not a professional situation there is nothing wrong with leaving a concert or a movie if you don't want to hear it (and this isn't the only reason why people leave concerts). Distracting or disrupting other who want to listen is another issue and I am against that. Personally, I would rather have people leave a performance of mine instead of them falling asleep or thinking "did I leave the bedroom light on?"

Phil's Page

www.classicallounge.com

Your blog can be viewed at http://classicallounge.com/Philmusic/blogs

By: Philip Fried Date: Mar 23, 2007 - 07:25 AM
thought
By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com philmusic@aol.com

There is a certain difficulty inherent in describing musical "sounds" with words alone. If I am hearing you correctly Colin I think that your saying that your musical rhetoric, for all its wonderful content, is not "brilliant" enough. Brilliance is something that is generally understood immediately as its easy to notice. Brilliance is a fine thing but its not the only thing that makes a composition interesting. To be known as a "brilliant orchestrator," for example, is a back handed complement. Phil's Page

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responce to galen brown
By: Philip Fried Date: Mar 15, 2007 - 08:36 PM

pander handling
By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com philmusic@aol.com

Dear Mr. Brown: I didn't realize that the best way to solve a problem, in this case pandering, was simply to define it out of existence.

I mean no disrespect, I just strongly disagree.

Phil's Page

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newmusicbox replies
By: Philip Fried Date: Mar 15, 2007 - 08:21 AM
Some more quotes and an explanation! By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com

No one ever lost money underestimating the taste of the American public –P.T. Barum Never give a sucker an even break etc. etc. etc.

On a serious note, I might use steady beat for educational purposes. In this way new and challenging musical concepts might be approached and understood individually rather than all at once.

Anyway...

Phil's page Wednesday, March 14, 2007, 2:32:02 PM

Eschews on the other foot By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com

“Such a generalization would be equally erroneous if applied to music that intentionally eschews steady beats.”

Dear Frank: I don’t seem to understand your negative comments on my educational quote, which I think is neutral, and stands quite well. For example; I have used "Opera Trance" to introduce 1-4th graders to the operatic voice before I give them the "real" thing.

Oh, I said, “steady beat” what I meant was “dance beats”- but the concepts are similar—taking something familiar as a bridge into the unfamiliar.

Rather it seems that you are responding to my other observation that implies that adding a “dance beat”, to the music in question is dummying down and can also be a gateway to popular success.

By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com

Ok Frank, I understand but lets go back to Colin's point.

"it's seductive to think that I can gain instant credibility with ordinary listeners by dropping some phat 808s. "

I'm afraid that there are already some composers trying to do just that - and thats what my Barnum quote was all about.

the old switcheroo By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com

“The ability to improvise with a steady beat is no more or less challenging than to improvise without one.”

True Corey, but the point here is not what is challenging for the musician—but what is challenging for the general audience.

perhaps this topic needs more refection By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com

Colin I thought you were talking about dance beats (which tend to be very steady) in particular. What you say is true about “ the distinction between "no beat" and "a complex and investigative use of rhythm." The questions about rhythm and meter and the approaches of composers to these issues are many, various, and endless. Yet for me it’s the results that count (because the results are the music )-- not so much the theory or the ideas behind them which can confuse as well as illuminate. For example; a lot of composers use precompositional plans that look very similar but sound very different. I have some stuff about rhythm on my page.

Its great to hear from composers who are trying to find their own sound by way of their own musical backgrounds. That is the way to go. Also, can great music come from a dance beat? Why not? Yet, The question of pandering has, and will always, remain with us. Phil's page

By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com

Dear Frank: Thank you for your personal comments--that took some courage I think.
Comments: 0   Edit
responce to Colin
By: Philip Fried Date: Mar 14, 2007 - 11:20 AM
By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com "is it unethical to take advantage of their ignorance (in the most nonjudgmental sense) and cultural conditioning (in the most judgmental sense) to do so?"

Colin, the wages of sin is money. Or, perhaps you would like to meet my very successful friend Faust?
Comments: 0   Edit

By: Philip Fried Date: Mar 12, 2007 - 11:36 AM
“How do composers tell audiences what's on our minds when our definition of music differs so dramatically from theirs?” Colin its true that commercial music in a commercial society rules—but wait, people are also very accepting of the unfamiliar if it is put into the right context. Many successful concerts are based on the proper context (ok, spin) for the works included. Also, many folks who say they hate “classical music” don’t mind similar stuff when they hear in films—they don’t even realize that it is modern or post-modern classical at that. I’m hopeful. “…How can we perform our duty as society' conscience if we can't communicate with society?” I’m not sure of your meaning here—do you mean because most folks don’t listen or go to concerts or are you saying that “concertgoers” don’t care for the unfamiliar? . If the unfamiliar is the crux here then find a way to reach out. Don’t leave the job to others. An additional reality check for us composers is the financial paradigm change from the traditional fat/thin times, to a new paradigm where it’s always fat for some always thin for others. Anyway all you can do is your
Comments: 0   Edit
"Jeering at elders is an important right of passage for young composers. "
By: Philip Fried Date: Mar 8, 2007 - 10:18 AM
"Jeering at elders is an important right of passage for young composers. " I wonder how Brahms fits into this. Perhaps he was never young. Anyway, if jeering at ones elders is just an expected "right of passage" then there is no real meaning to it at all. Some folks continue to jeer all their lives. On another topic, Aaron Copland was one composer who did great things for the younger generation of composers. Who has taken his place? Phil's page
Comments: 0   Edit
Busoni
By: Philip Fried Date: Mar 3, 2007 - 05:52 PM

Busoni-I think is the one major influence on composers today that everyone overlooks. Even more than neo-classical Stravinsky, and pre-dating him, Busoni composed music that was emotionally cool and objective. Composers from Carter too Glass fall under this spell.

Comments: 1   Edit
history etc.
By: Philip Fried Date: Mar 3, 2007 - 05:47 PM
By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com philmusic@aol.com

History also holds great sway when we talk about music. Looking back at Belinda Reynolds's Walden School love-fest, and the gushing responses left by readers, all of this makes me wonder if we classical music types place way too much emphasis on history.

Dear Randy:

I don't think its a question of too much history, rather its a question of whose history we accept for our own.

Oh, I did not post on that particular "blog".

Phil's Page

Friday, March 02, 2007

Comments: 1   Edit
a thought
By: Philip Fried Date: Mar 1, 2007 - 10:16 AM
By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com “The famous "Midwestern orchestra sound" is a good example of the former. More than one observer has noticed that a great deal of large-ensemble music from the Great Plains states is, to quote Galen Brown, "really well orchestrated," "quasi-tonal," and "as big and loud as possible." A problem that is not addressed here is the difference between those works that are performed in; University sponsored concerts, public institutional concerts, grant related concerts- readings and alike (some of which are related to these other types)- and self-produced concerts and those works that are not. This seems to be a proscribed world, but how can you discuss the many non-tonal Midwestern symphonies that have not been performed? I suggest that the next time you see a film think about what’s just outside the frame-the stuff the director doesn’t want you to see. Phil's Page
Comments: 0   Edit
reply newmusicbox
By: Philip Fried Date: Feb 23, 2007 - 07:46 PM

I don't get it?
By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com philmusic@aol.com

"I don't think we can make any blanket statements that can confirm what a California, New York, Illinois or any other state composer is. "

The only blanket statement, that I can make is that they are good in bed. I use one all the time. Most of the composers I know use them too.

I hope that dosen't offend anyone.

Beach, Blanket--Bingo!

counterpoint?
By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com philmusic@aol.com

Well, I guess I'm out, and loving it!

When your contrapuntal, you can’t be disgruntled!

Phil's page

By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com philmusic@aol.com

Oh, Corey, I just love it when you speak French.

Phil's Page

old posts 26

2011-01-18T15:19:00.001-08:00

Comments: 1   Edit
On Opera Librettos
By: Philip Fried Date: Feb 23, 2007 - 07:57 AM
On Opera Librettos Literature is too big a subject for this page so I offer the following information. The opera libretto is a form of literature that has fallen from its once (revered) position in the art world. At one time Wagner publish his librettos separately form his music and they had public readings to great acclaim (though they are not so prized today) . Many poets of past also wrote opera librettos. The stage play and the opera libretto were very similar entities but most are forgotten. It is only through the music that most operas are remembered, with the exception of Faust. Opera was created, or reinvented by a group of Italian music lovers, the Florentine Cameratta, who knew that Ancient Greek drama was sung, not spoken. They developed a new style of singing (sing-speech) called parlando, what later became recitative. The parlando would allow singers to become characters who would act while they sang. • On the practical side a libretto has 2 parts the senario and the text. • A libretto can be original though they are mostly adaptations of other works or based on fairy tales, folklore, etc. • The scenario is about the scenes, characters and what will happen in each scene . • The text is what the characters and the chorus will actually sing. • "Senarization" is common to all literature including plays, screenplays and musicals. There are film directors who only work with scenarios as they have their actors improvise the actual text. (i.e. Topsey Turvy). This could work in opera as well it worked on Broadway with a Chorus Line. • The traditional operatic text rhymes just as the poetry of that time did and as our popular music still does.. The conventional approach to opera is to adapt a well known story, keep some of the plot, add or condense as needed. The scenario can stay close to the original but the singing text is usually altered.- as it must rhyme -tends to change a lot. Wagner changed the end of Lohengrin. He has Elisabeth die for dramatic effect and to create closure. Stories are often adapted for opera. Many of these stories and plays are mere trifles so we hardly care if they are changed. Usually the change and the addition of music is for the better. We consider a libretto good when it keeps the spark of the original story alive. Consider the many operatic versions of Faust and Shakespeare. There was a time, and a style, of opera when their wasn't much interest in the story at all, just in the Olympic nature of the power and coloratura of the singers. In this case the Aria text had to express a strong emotion and have plenty of open vowels. Modernist writers: Joyce, Pound, Hemingway, Steinbeck, to name a few, create new challenges for opera creation. Their text is so important and individual that to adapt it in a convention way does violence to the writers art. The Grapes of Wrath made a fine film yet all of the prose was cut out, the essence that made it unique as a work of art.
Comments: 0   Edit
counterpoint? -repy to new music box
By: Philip Fried Date: Feb 22, 2007 - 11:40 AM

By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com

Well, I guess I'm out, and loving it!

When your contrapuntal, you can’t be disgruntled! I wonder? "Besides vindicating my long-held suspicion that counterpoint is totally overrated, .."

Randy, I wonder if this is why composers don't teach theory? Phil's page Phil's page

Comments: 0   Edit
new music box etc.
By: Philip Fried Date: Feb 21, 2007 - 08:47 AM
I’m not Philip Fried, but I play him on TV. My point was not about hypnosis but about those folks who come to concerts and disturb others because they have their mind elsewhere for the duration. Not as an escape from the music mind you, but because of short attention spans. So look deep into my blog, look deeper, deeper, your mind is getting focused …so focused; you are in a state of utter relaxation yet awareness. You want, no need, to go to a new music concert pay cash and listen attentively. You will not leave even the music make you sleepy so sleepy. At the final applause you will applaud politely, find the composers and give them each $10,000 dollars. You will then wake up refreshed and remember everything.

I was going to say that I don’t use my real name because I’m a wanted man. Since I happen to be a composer who is going to buy that excuse?

Comments: 0   Edit
newmusic box response
By: Philip Fried Date: Feb 13, 2007 - 05:45 PM

How to listen, or not!
By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com philmusic@aol.com

On the other hand I was at a symphony concert and the women next to me kept searching through her purse looking for stuff for about 10 minuets-not taking anything out mind you -- just poking around it making distracting sounds. I wish she had left the concert, since she was not prepared to listen or care if others did. I think that if its not a professional situation there is nothing wrong with leaving a concert or a movie if you don't want to hear it (and this isn't the only reason why people leave concerts). Distracting or disrupting other who want to listen is another issue and I am against that. Personally, I would rather have people leave a performance of mine instead of them falling asleep or thinking "did I leave the bedroom light on?"

Phil's Page

Tuesday, February 13, 2007, 8:39:31 PM

Comments: 0   Edit
newmusic box response
By: Philip Fried Date: Feb 13, 2007 - 05:45 PM

How to listen, or not!
By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com philmusic@aol.com

On the other hand I was at a symphony concert and the women next to me kept searching through her purse looking for stuff for about 10 minuets-not taking anything out mind you -- just poking around it making distracting sounds. I wish she had left the concert, since she was not prepared to listen or care if others did. I think that if its not a professional situation there is nothing wrong with leaving a concert or a movie if you don't want to hear it (and this isn't the only reason why people leave concerts). Distracting or disrupting other who want to listen is another issue and I am against that. Personally, I would rather have people leave a performance of mine instead of them falling asleep or thinking "did I leave the bedroom light on?"

Phil's Page

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By: Philip Fried Date: Mar 23, 2007 - 07:25 AM
thought
By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com philmusic@aol.com

There is a certain difficulty inherent in describing musical "sounds" with words alone. If I am hearing you correctly Colin I think that your saying that your musical rhetoric, for all its wonderful content, is not "brilliant" enough. Brilliance is something that is generally understood immediately as its easy to notice. Brilliance is a fine thing but its not the only thing that makes a composition interesting. To be known as a "brilliant orchestrator," for example, is a back handed complement. Phil's Page

Comments: -1   Edit
responce to galen brown
By: Philip Fried Date: Mar 15, 2007 - 08:36 PM

pander handling
By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com philmusic@aol.com

Dear Mr. Brown: I didn't realize that the best way to solve a problem, in this case pandering, was simply to define it out of existence.

I mean no disrespect, I just strongly disagree.

Phil's Page

Comments: 0   Edit
newmusicbox replies
By: Philip Fried Date: Mar 15, 2007 - 08:21 AM
Some more quotes and an explanation! By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com

No one ever lost money underestimating the taste of the American public –P.T. Barum Never give a sucker an even break etc. etc. etc.

On a serious note, I might use steady beat for educational purposes. In this way new and challenging musical concepts might be approached and understood individually rather than all at once.

Anyway...

Phil's page Wednesday, March 14, 2007, 2:32:02 PM

Eschews on the other foot By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com

“Such a generalization would be equally erroneous if applied to music that intentionally eschews steady beats.”

Dear Frank: I don’t seem to understand your negative comments on my educational quote, which I think is neutral, and stands quite well. For example; I have used "Opera Trance" to introduce 1-4th graders to the operatic voice before I give them the "real" thing.

Oh, I said, “steady beat” what I meant was “dance beats”- but the concepts are similar—taking something familiar as a bridge into the unfamiliar.

Rather it seems that you are responding to my other observation that implies that adding a “dance beat”, to the music in question is dummying down and can also be a gateway to popular success.

By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com

Ok Frank, I understand but lets go back to Colin's point.

"it's seductive to think that I can gain instant credibility with ordinary listeners by dropping some phat 808s. "

I'm afraid that there are already some composers trying to do just that - and thats what my Barnum quote was all about.

the old switcheroo By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com

“The ability to improvise with a steady beat is no more or less challenging than to improvise without one.”

True Corey, but the point here is not what is challenging for the musician—but what is challenging for the general audience.

perhaps this topic needs more refection By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com

Colin I thought you were talking about dance beats (which tend to be very steady) in particular. What you say is true about “ the distinction between "no beat" and "a complex and investigative use of rhythm." The questions about rhythm and meter and the approaches of composers to these issues are many, various, and endless. Yet for me it’s the results that count (because the results are the music )-- not so much the theory or the ideas behind them which can confuse as well as illuminate. For example; a lot of composers use precompositional plans that look very similar but sound very different. I have some stuff about rhythm on my page.

Its great to hear from composers who are trying to find their own sound by way of their own musical backgrounds. That is the way to go. Also, can great music come from a dance beat? Why not? Yet, The question of pandering has, and will always, remain with us. Phil's page

By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com

Dear Frank: Thank you for your personal comments--that took some courage I think.
Comments: 0   Edit
responce to Colin
By: Philip Fried Date: Mar 14, 2007 - 11:20 AM
By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com "is it unethical to take advantage of their ignorance (in the most nonjudgmental sense) and cultural conditioning (in the most judgmental sense) to do so?"

Colin, the wages of sin is money. Or, perhaps you would like to meet my very successful friend Faust?
Comments: 0   Edit

By: Philip Fried Date: Mar 12, 2007 - 11:36 AM
“How do composers tell audiences what's on our minds when our definition of music differs so dramatically from theirs?” Colin its true that commercial music in a commercial society rules—but wait, people are also very accepting of the unfamiliar if it is put into the right context. Many successful concerts are based on the proper context (ok, spin) for the works included. Also, many folks who say they hate “classical music” don’t mind similar stuff when they hear in films—they don’t even realize that it is modern or post-modern classical at that. I’m hopeful. “…How can we perform our duty as society' conscience if we can't communicate with society?” I’m not sure of your meaning here—do you mean because most folks don’t listen or go to concerts or are you saying that “concertgoers” don’t care for the unfamiliar? . If the unfamiliar is the crux here then find a way to reach out. Don’t leave the job to others. An additional reality check for us composers is the financial paradigm change from the traditional fat/thin times, to a new paradigm where it’s always fat for some always thin for others. Anyway all you can do is your
Comments: 0   Edit
"Jeering at elders is an important right of passage for young composers. "
By: Philip Fried Date: Mar 8, 2007 - 10:18 AM
"Jeering at elders is an important right of passage for young composers. " I wonder how Brahms fits into this. Perhaps he was never young. Anyway, if jeering at ones elders is just an expected "right of passage" then there is no real meaning to it at all. Some folks continue to jeer all their lives. On another topic, Aaron Copland was one composer who did great things for the younger generation of composers. Who has taken his place? Phil's page
Comments: 0   Edit
Busoni
By: Philip Fried Date: Mar 3, 2007 - 05:52 PM

Busoni-I think is the one major influence on composers today that everyone overlooks. Even more than neo-classical Stravinsky, and pre-dating him, Busoni composed music that was emotionally cool and objective. Composers from Carter too Glass fall under this spell.

Comments: 1   Edit
history etc.
By: Philip Fried Date: Mar 3, 2007 - 05:47 PM
By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com philmusic@aol.com

History also holds great sway when we talk about music. Looking back at Belinda Reynolds's Walden School love-fest, and the gushing responses left by readers, all of this makes me wonder if we classical music types place way too much emphasis on history.

Dear Randy:

I don't think its a question of too much history, rather its a question of whose history we accept for our own.

Oh, I did not post on that particular "blog".

Phil's Page

Friday, March 02, 2007

Comments: 1   Edit
a thought
By: Philip Fried Date: Mar 1, 2007 - 10:16 AM
By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com “The famous "Midwestern orchestra sound" is a good example of the former. More than one observer has noticed that a great deal of large-ensemble music from the Great Plains states is, to quote Galen Brown, "really well orchestrated," "quasi-tonal," and "as big and loud as possible." A problem that is not addressed here is the difference between those works that are performed in; University sponsored concerts, public institutional concerts, grant related concerts- readings and alike (some of which are related to these other types)- and self-produced concerts and those works that are not. This seems to be a proscribed world, but how can you discuss the many non-tonal Midwestern symphonies that have not been performed? I suggest that the next time you see a film think about what’s just outside the frame-the stuff the director doesn’t want you to see. Phil's Page
Comments: 0   Edit
reply newmusicbox
By: Philip Fried Date: Feb 23, 2007 - 07:46 PM

I don't get it?
By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com philmusic@aol.com

"I don't think we can make any blanket statements that can confirm what a California, New York, Illinois or any other state composer is. "

The only blanket statement, that I can make is that they are good in bed. I use one all the time. Most of the composers I know use them too.

I hope that dosen't offend anyone.

Beach, Blanket--Bingo!

counterpoint?
By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com philmusic@aol.com

Well, I guess I'm out, and loving it!

When your contrapuntal, you can’t be disgruntled!

Phil's page

By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com philmusic@aol.com

Oh, Corey, I just love it when you speak French.

Phil's Page

Comments: 1   Edit
On Opera Librettos
By: Philip Fried Date: Feb 23, 2007 - 07:57 AM
On Opera Librettos Literature is too big a subject for this page so I offer the following information. The opera libretto is a form of literature that has fallen from its once (revered) position in the art world. At one time Wagner publish his librettos separately form his music and they had public readings to great acclaim (though they are not so prized today) . Many poets of past also wrote opera librettos. The stage play and the opera libretto were very similar entities but most are forgotten. It is only through the music that most operas are remembered, with the exception of Faust. Opera was created, or reinvented by a group of Italian music lovers, the Florentine Cameratta, who knew that Ancient Greek drama was sung, not spoken. They developed a new style of singing (sing-speech) called parlando, what later became recitative. The parlando would allow singers to become characters who would act while they sang. • On the practical side a libretto has 2 parts the senario and the text. • A libretto can be original though they are mostly adaptations of other works or based on fairy tales, folklore, etc. • The scenario is about the scenes, characters and what will happen in each scene . • The text is what the characters and the chorus will actually sing. • "Senarization" is common to all literature including plays, screenplays and musicals. There are film directors who only work with scenarios as they have their actors improvise the actual text. (i.e. Topsey Turvy). This could work in opera as well it worked on Broadway with a Chorus Line. • The traditional operatic text rhymes just as the poetry of that time did and as our popular music still does.. The conventional approach to opera is to adapt a well known story, keep some of the plot, add or condense as needed. The scenario can stay close to the original but the singing text is usually altered.- as it must rhyme -tends to change a lot. Wagner changed the end of Lohengrin. He has Elisabeth die for dramatic effect and to create closure. Stories are often adapted for opera. Many of these stories and plays are mere trifles so we hardly care if they are changed. Usually the change and the addition of music is for the better. We consider a libretto good when it keeps the spark of the original story alive. Consider the many operatic versions of Faust and Shakespeare. There was a time, and a style, of opera when their wasn't much interest in the story at all, just in the Olympic nature of the power and coloratura of the singers. In this case the Aria text had to express a strong emotion and have plenty of open vowels. Modernist writers: Joyce, Pound, Hemingway, Steinbeck, to name a few, create new challenges for opera creation. Their text is so important and individual that to adapt it in a convention way does violence to the writers art. The Grapes of Wrath made a fine film yet all of the prose was cut out, the essence that made it unique as a work of art.
Comments: 0   Edit
counterpoint? -repy to new music box
By: Philip Fried Date: Feb 22, 2007 - 11:40 AM

By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com

Well, I guess I'm out, and loving it!

When your contrapuntal, you can’t be disgruntled! I wonder? "Besides vindicating my long-held suspicion that counterpoint is totally overrated, .."

Randy, I wonder if this is why composers don't teach theory? Phil's page Phil's page

Comments: 0   Edit
new music box etc.
By: Philip Fried Date: Feb 21, 2007 - 08:47 AM
I’m not Philip Fried, but I play him on TV. My point was not about hypnosis but about those folks who come to concerts and disturb others because they have their mind elsewhere for the duration. Not as an escape from the music mind you, but because of short attention spans. So look deep into my blog, look deeper, deeper, your mind is getting focused …so focused; you are in a state of utter relaxation yet awareness. You want, no need, to go to a new music concert pay cash and listen attentively. You will not leave even the music make you sleepy so sleepy. At the final applause you will applaud politely, find the composers and give them each $10,000 dollars. You will then wake up refreshed and remember everything.

I was going to say that I don’t use my real name because I’m a wanted man. Since I happen to be a composer who is going to buy that excuse?

Comments: 0   Edit
newmusic box response
By: Philip Fried Date: Feb 13, 2007 - 05:45 PM

How to listen, or not!
By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com philmusic@aol.com

On the other hand I was at a symphony concert and the women next to me kept searching through her purse looking for stuff for about 10 minuets-not taking anything out mind you -- just poking around it making distracting sounds. I wish she had left the concert, since she was not prepared to listen or care if others did. I think that if its not a professional situation there is nothing wrong with leaving a concert or a movie if you don't want to hear it (and this isn't the only reason why people leave concerts). Distracting or disrupting other who want to listen is another issue and I am against that. Personally, I would rather have people leave a performance of mine instead of them falling asleep or thinking "did I leave the bedroom light on?"

Phil's Page

Tuesday, February 13, 2007, 8:39:31 PM

Comments: 0   Edit
newmusic box response
By: Philip Fried Date: Feb 13, 2007 - 05:45 PM

How to listen, or not!
By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com philmusic@aol.com

On the other hand I was at a symphony concert and the women next to me kept searching through her purse looking for stuff for about 10 minuets-not taking anything out mind you -- just poking around it making distracting sounds. I wish she had left the concert, since she was not prepared to listen or care if others did. I think that if its not a professional situation there is nothing wrong with leaving a concert or a movie if you don't want to hear it (and this isn't the only reason why people leave concerts). Distracting or disrupting other who want to listen is another issue and I am against that. Personally, I would rather have people leave a performance of mine instead of them falling asleep or thinking "did I leave the bedroom light on?"

Phil's Page

Tuesday, February 13, 2007, 8:39:31 PM

Comments: 0   Edit
Response to Belinda
By: Philip Fried Date: Feb 13, 2007 - 08:24 AM
s called survival.
By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com

Perhaps you are not aware of just how precarious arts education funding is in the United States. Since arts educators are not in charge of the school districts or NCLB we don’t make the policies that rule us. We are forced to prove again and again our value and worth in order to keep our jobs alive. Here we preach to the choir but the rest of the time we deal with administrators, principals, and political leaders who can be uninformed and unhelpful. Phil's Page

Tuesday, February 13, 2007, 10:49:55 AM

Comments: 0   Edit
Fair play --newmusicbox
By: Philip Fried Date: Feb 8, 2007 - 03:53 PM

By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com philmusic@aol.com

Dear Alex, if I can call you that, it seems that what you really want is a little American "fair play" in the critical outlook of Germany. It would be ok for German critics to pan Mr. Adams and those like him if, like you, they did it on a case by case basis not as a lock step monolith. I can respect that. The question is, and since I am not a German (although I do have the Austrian Jewish name), is this; what is the perception of American music critics in Germany, Europe and the outside world? Is it simular? I do know that many successful European composers have made careers and home for themselves in the U.S., and not so many Americans in Europe. I also thought that no one was a profit in their own land. Well go figure. Phil's page

Comments: 0   Edit
defending Nono--newmusicbox.org
By: Philip Fried Date: Feb 8, 2007 - 02:39 PM

Wait a minute!
By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com philmusic@aol.com

Let me get this straight-Menotti just died and the best you have to offer by way of an obituary for him is to slam Nono? ??? Are we heartless or what?

Wednesday, February 07, 2007, 10:28:33 AM

quoting Mr. Holland
By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com philmusic@aol.com

The word "project" does not imply a just a concert. Again, this is pure speculation, but this would imply something like an evening of several 1 Act operas in which each composer would contribute something. This is a little more personal than a mere concert program. As I am not an historian I also don't know much about the personal relations between these two composers while they were living.

Anyway this is not the time to remember what these composers were against, but what they were for. Phil's page

Wednesday, February 07, 2007, 10:44:02 AM

Comments: 1   Edit
defending Nono-newmusicbox.org
By: Philip Fried Date: Feb 8, 2007 - 02:38 PM
By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com philmusic@aol.com

It’s a natural assumption that all composers want all the performance they can get and all performances are, of course, wonderful and exactly what the composer asked for. I worked with Nono briefly so I know this much about him--that he was a very political composer in every sense of the word. I may not agree with his decision (based on the information you furnished) as I prefer a program with a wide variety of music, but to censor ones own music is not really the same as “throwing ones weight around.” How many performing groups have rules, written and unwritten, about what kind of music they will and will not program? As a protest Ralph Shapey forbid his music from being performed for a time. Sometimes the veto is the only power composers have. Phil's page

Tuesday, February 06, 2007, 2:32:46 PM

Comments: 0   Edit
too much ipod?
By: Philip Fried Date: Feb 8, 2007 - 02:36 PM

on topic
By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com philmusic@aol.com

Copland also spoke against casual listening or turning music into the background for something else more important. I find that as I grow older I listen to recorded music less and less though my wife and me are very fond of playing piano duets together. "The Family that plays together stays.. …" did I say that? Phil

Thursday, February 08, 2007, 2:03:47 PM

Comments: 0   Edit
a reply to Alex Ross
By: Philip Fried Date: Feb 8, 2007 - 02:35 PM

Do I have to be tonal?
By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com philmusic@aol.com

“my complaint about contemporary Austro-German music has to do with the self-imposed limits on language, the still powerful taboo against tonality.” A Minnesota composer just back from Latvia had a similar complaint. It seems that under Soviet “influence” composers there were not allowed to compose non-tonal music of any type and now that that influence was gone there was the natural reaction --everyone dumped tonality. Atonality was the forbidden fruit. Since I have not heard the music in question I can’t comment of the degree or type of reaction we are talking about. The world of the non-tonal is a huge umbrella encompassing many different styles some of them seemingly very consonant. Obviously, politics plays a much greater role in European music than in the United States, especial where nationalism and state support are a given. On the other hand aren’t you implying that to be an independent composer you have to be “tonal”? Isn't that just the same thing in a different guise? Can't I just be tonal in my spare time? Phil's page

Comments: 0   Edit
some post modern humor
By: Philip Fried Date: Feb 6, 2007 - 08:07 PM

some humor
By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com philmusic@aol.com

Would a parcel-post composer be an overnight sensation? Would a post-toasty composer make us feel all warm and fuzzy? I apologize in advance. Phil

Tuesday, February 06, 2007, 11:33:05 AM

Comments: 0   Edit
Opera
By: Philip Fried Date: Feb 6, 2007 - 03:03 PM

Phil's resume stuffer

Ok singers! I just composed an opera titled;

"Important Opera Houses in Europe and the United States."-It has 2 parts

The Prima Donna and Major Roles

So if you chose to be in my opera you can truthfully write in your resume that you Performed:

Major Roles in Important Opera Houses in Europe and the United States!

or

The Prima Donna in Important Opera Houses in Europe and the United States!

The score is available for perusal

Instrumentalists take heart!
I have many solo parts in my Opera!

Comments: 0   Edit
Waste of time
By: Philip Fried Date: Feb 6, 2007 - 08:04 AM

Why worry about them others?

A question was asked recently about the old uptown/downtown new music split and what if anything it meant. The theory that there are (only) 2 mutually exclusive music scenes (both in New York City) are on the face of it ridicules, and mostly counter productive. However many folks think that this is true, but not as many as those people who want it to be true because they have a vested interest.

Lets review the generalizations:

    Uptown


    Downtown

    Old fashioned and informed by history


    New and unprecedented, innovative

    Serious


    Fun

    Establishment


    Anti establishment

    Artificial


    Real

    Square


    Hip

    Academic –disconnected from audience


    Folk—audience comes first

    Institutional


    Independent

    Traditional


    Experimental

    Powerful


    Oppressed

    Exclusive


    Inclusive

    Insiders


    Outsiders

    Intellectual /dry


    Emotional/exciting

    Accepts serial music


    Rejects serial music

    Rejects popular and world music


    Inclusive of all styles except the above

    White Male Dominated


    Not!

    Rich upper crusties


    Just plain folks

    Republican


    Green

    Success oriented- money


    Art oriented-love

    12 semi tones only please


    All kinds of tuning

    them-The monolith


    us- The Other

    Formal


    Informal

    Old jazz


    Beyond Jazz

    Great music sounds great


    great music must look good too!

    Blessed by Babbitt


    Blessed by Cage

    programing


    mashing

    institutional


    entrepreneurial

    Educated


    The "street"

Is there something to this?

A cursory look at these generalizations shows enough holes in the logic strings to make a Swiss cheese. Also, downtown sort of looks something like your typical Coke/Pepsi/Sprite advertising campaign. Obviously, in a commercial society art needs to advertise to appeal to its target audience. So what is this all about? Is it simply the new money audience verses the old money? Possibly. Is it an innocent way of “branding” a sound? Is it just a bunch of Alpha Males and Alpha Females gone wild?

Perhaps it's this -- many people, and composers in particular, seem to be hurt by the arts “system” that they don’t control; we don't get the respect we deserve in this country. When the big job or performance we wanted doesn’t come as planned, some of us need to assign blame. All composers fail at times, no matter who they are. The question is: what is your breaking point? I am always surprised at these self-described oppressed folks, who careers are unimpeded. They have big jobs, major awards, etc., but obviously there is a moral high ground to be had as an oppressed person that no amount of success or high position can gratify. It is not a surprise that there are always people who know how to take advantage of that discontent. Those who propose the downtown/uptown schism are saying "see, we are the real avant-garde.".

More wastes of time

Worrying about the unfair competition:

Schnitzel Balm's Law:

In any educational institution an unworthy will be elevated for a term to an exalted position. This happens because teachers have the power to do so, and because the student(s) are oh so grateful. The less worthy the more grateful. The crash and burn of unsustainable expectations are not the teachers concern.

The Schnitzel Balm Syndrome:

If you are a "chosen one" enjoy the ride but remember that you are skating on quicksand. For a quick reality check please see Simon Cowell.

All About Phil

Upcoming Performances & Current Work

Reviews

About My Music

New Composition List

A reminder that all materials here are copyright © 2007 by Philip Fried, and permission is required to reprint in any form.

Comments: 0   Edit
Where did the great composers go?
By: Philip Fried Date: Feb 6, 2007 - 08:01 AM

There was a time when we understood that in every generation there was a great composer, but that time seems long gone. There have been many theories about why composers are so absent from the public “scene.” One question that could be asked is this; what did the "great composer" do for society and who if anyone now fills that role? I propose that these composers functioned as the ombudsman of the imagination. Beethoven was one of them, perhaps the first of them, and for many he still fills that role. He understood something about our human condition that we knew about ourselves internally but that only he could seem to express to the world. People acknowledged it.

Some generalizations:

Beethoven is not thought of as self interested or careerist.

Even though he was not a leader in a composer’s society or guild, there was no shame or loss of status for other living composers who supported the notion that Beethoven (alive) was a better composer then they were.

His world view was not narrow.
Though he was not a writer of speeches, he maintained a public life.

He did not use gamesmanship or personal politics for advantage or to maintain his success.

He tried to make a difference in society with his music.

I'm afraid that the imagination is no longer honored in American society as we have replaced it with media. For every book we now know what every character looks like and how they speak-- and they just happen to talk and act like us. The popular music cartel (also part of the media)has managed to steal some of art music's thunder by focusing on its own alleged integrity and its many charitable works (though they have only recently been interested in music education). Though it is true that popular song can be a point of political galvanization, its the words that are the focus more than the music. Folk songs have no composer. Today, the artistic and financial survival of so many composers is predicated on working in a very narrow context. So they must reject having any appeal outside their own musical "ghetto."

Anyway, even if we all had open and unencumbered imaginations this doesn't sound like any composer we know today.

Your blog can be viewed at http://classicallounge.com/Philmusic/blogs
On Opera Librettos
By: Philip Fried Date: Feb 23, 2007 - 07:57 AM
On Opera Librettos Literature is too big a subject for this page so I offer the following information. The opera libretto is a form of literature that has fallen from its once (revered) position in the art world. At one time Wagner publish his librettos separately form his music and they had public readings to great acclaim (though they are not so prized today) . Many poets of past also wrote opera librettos. The stage play and the opera libretto were very similar entities but most are forgotten. It is only through the music that most operas are remembered, with the exception of Faust. Opera was created, or reinvented by a group of Italian music lovers, the Florentine Cameratta, who knew that Ancient Greek drama was sung, not spoken. They developed a new style of singing (sing-speech) called parlando, what later became recitative. The parlando would allow singers to become characters who would act while they sang. • On the practical side a libretto has 2 parts the senario and the text. • A libretto can be original though they are mostly adaptations of other works or based on fairy tales, folklore, etc. • The scenario is about the scenes, characters and what will happen in each scene . • The text is what the characters and the chorus will actually sing. • "Senarization" is common to all literature including plays, screenplays and musicals. There are film directors who only work with scenarios as they have their actors improvise the actual text. (i.e. Topsey Turvy). This could work in opera as well it worked on Broadway with a Chorus Line. • The traditional operatic text rhymes just as the poetry of that time did and as our popular music still does.. The conventional approach to opera is to adapt a well known story, keep some of the plot, add or condense as needed. The scenario can stay close to the original but the singing text is usually altered.- as it must rhyme -tends to change a lot. Wagner changed the end of Lohengrin. He has Elisabeth die for dramatic effect and to create closure. Stories are often adapted for opera. Many of these stories and plays are mere trifles so we hardly care if they are changed. Usually the change and the addition of music is for the better. We consider a libretto good when it keeps the spark of the original story alive. Consider the many operatic versions of Faust and Shakespeare. There was a time, and a style, of opera when their wasn't much interest in the story at all, just in the Olympic nature of the power and coloratura of the singers. In this case the Aria text had to express a strong emotion and have plenty of open vowels. Modernist writers: Joyce, Pound, Hemingway, Steinbeck, to name a few, create new challenges for opera creation. Their text is so important and individual that to adapt it in a convention way does violence to the writers art. The Grapes of Wrath made a fine film yet all of the prose was cut out, the essence that made it unique as a work of art.
Comments: -1   Edit
counterpoint? -repy to new music box
By: Philip Fried Date: Feb 22, 2007 - 11:40 AM

By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com

Well, I guess I'm out, and loving it!

When your contrapuntal, you can’t be disgruntled! I wonder? "Besides vindicating my long-held suspicion that counterpoint is totally overrated, .."

Randy, I wonder if this is why composers don't teach theory? Phil's page Phil's page

Comments: 0   Edit
new music box etc.
By: Philip Fried Date: Feb 21, 2007 - 08:47 AM
I’m not Philip Fried, but I play him on TV. My point was not about hypnosis but about those folks who come to concerts and disturb others because they have their mind elsewhere for the duration. Not as an escape from the music mind you, but because of short attention spans. So look deep into my blog, look deeper, deeper, your mind is getting focused …so focused; you are in a state of utter relaxation yet awareness. You want, no need, to go to a new music concert pay cash and listen attentively. You will not leave even the music make you sleepy so sleepy. At the final applause you will applaud politely, find the composers and give them each $10,000 dollars. You will then wake up refreshed and remember everything.

I was going to say that I don’t use my real name because I’m a wanted man. Since I happen to be a composer who is going to buy that excuse?

Comments: 0   Edit
newmusic box response
By: Philip Fried Date: Feb 13, 2007 - 05:45 PM

How to listen, or not!
By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com philmusic@aol.com

On the other hand I was at a symphony concert and the women next to me kept searching through her purse looking for stuff for about 10 minuets-not taking anything out mind you -- just poking around it making distracting sounds. I wish she had left the concert, since she was not prepared to listen or care if others did. I think that if its not a professional situation there is nothing wrong with leaving a concert or a movie if you don't want to hear it (and this isn't the only reason why people leave concerts). Distracting or disrupting other who want to listen is another issue and I am against that. Personally, I would rather have people leave a performance of mine instead of them falling asleep or thinking "did I leave the bedroom light on?"

Phil's Page

Tuesday, February 13, 2007, 8:39:31 PM

Comments: 0   Edit
newmusic box response
By: Philip Fried Date: Feb 13, 2007 - 05:45 PM

How to listen, or not!
By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com philmusic@aol.com

On the other hand I was at a symphony concert and the women next to me kept searching through her purse looking for stuff for about 10 minuets-not taking anything out mind you -- just poking around it making distracting sounds. I wish she had left the concert, since she was not prepared to listen or care if others did. I think that if its not a professional situation there is nothing wrong with leaving a concert or a movie if you don't want to hear it (and this isn't the only reason why people leave concerts). Distracting or disrupting other who want to listen is another issue and I am against that. Personally, I would rather have people leave a performance of mine instead of them falling asleep or thinking "did I leave the bedroom light on?"

Phil's Page

Tuesday, February 13, 2007, 8:39:31 PM

Comments: 0   Edit
Response to Belinda
By: Philip Fried Date: Feb 13, 2007 - 08:24 AM
s called survival.
By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com

Perhaps you are not aware of just how precarious arts education funding is in the United States. Since arts educators are not in charge of the school districts or NCLB we don’t make the policies that rule us. We are forced to prove again and again our value and worth in order to keep our jobs alive. Here we preach to the choir but the rest of the time we deal with administrators, principals, and political leaders who can be uninformed and unhelpful. Phil's Page

Tuesday, February 13, 2007, 10:49:55 AM

Comments: 0   Edit
Fair play --newmusicbox
By: Philip Fried Date: Feb 8, 2007 - 03:53 PM

By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com philmusic@aol.com

Dear Alex, if I can call you that, it seems that what you really want is a little American "fair play" in the critical outlook of Germany. It would be ok for German critics to pan Mr. Adams and those like him if, like you, they did it on a case by case basis not as a lock step monolith. I can respect that. The question is, and since I am not a German (although I do have the Austrian Jewish name), is this; what is the perception of American music critics in Germany, Europe and the outside world? Is it simular? I do know that many successful European composers have made careers and home for themselves in the U.S., and not so many Americans in Europe. I also thought that no one was a profit in their own land. Well go figure. Phil's page

Comments: 0   Edit
defending Nono--newmusicbox.org
By: Philip Fried Date: Feb 8, 2007 - 02:39 PM

Wait a minute!
By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com philmusic@aol.com

Let me get this straight-Menotti just died and the best you have to offer by way of an obituary for him is to slam Nono? ??? Are we heartless or what?

Wednesday, February 07, 2007, 10:28:33 AM

quoting Mr. Holland
By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com philmusic@aol.com

The word "project" does not imply a just a concert. Again, this is pure speculation, but this would imply something like an evening of several 1 Act operas in which each composer would contribute something. This is a little more personal than a mere concert program. As I am not an historian I also don't know much about the personal relations between these two composers while they were living.

Anyway this is not the time to remember what these composers were against, but what they were for. Phil's page

Wednesday, February 07, 2007, 10:44:02 AM

Comments: 1   Edit
defending Nono-newmusicbox.org
By: Philip Fried Date: Feb 8, 2007 - 02:38 PM
By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com philmusic@aol.com

It’s a natural assumption that all composers want all the performance they can get and all performances are, of course, wonderful and exactly what the composer asked for. I worked with Nono briefly so I know this much about him--that he was a very political composer in every sense of the word. I may not agree with his decision (based on the information you furnished) as I prefer a program with a wide variety of music, but to censor ones own music is not really the same as “throwing ones weight around.” How many performing groups have rules, written and unwritten, about what kind of music they will and will not program? As a protest Ralph Shapey forbid his music from being performed for a time. Sometimes the veto is the only power composers have. Phil's page

Tuesday, February 06, 2007, 2:32:46 PM

Comments: 0   Edit
too much ipod?
By: Philip Fried Date: Feb 8, 2007 - 02:36 PM

on topic
By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com philmusic@aol.com

Copland also spoke against casual listening or turning music into the background for something else more important. I find that as I grow older I listen to recorded music less and less though my wife and me are very fond of playing piano duets together. "The Family that plays together stays.. …" did I say that? Phil

Thursday, February 08, 2007, 2:03:47 PM

Comments: 0   Edit
a reply to Alex Ross
By: Philip Fried Date: Feb 8, 2007 - 02:35 PM

Do I have to be tonal?
By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com philmusic@aol.com

“my complaint about contemporary Austro-German music has to do with the self-imposed limits on language, the still powerful taboo against tonality.” A Minnesota composer just back from Latvia had a similar complaint. It seems that under Soviet “influence” composers there were not allowed to compose non-tonal music of any type and now that that influence was gone there was the natural reaction --everyone dumped tonality. Atonality was the forbidden fruit. Since I have not heard the music in question I can’t comment of the degree or type of reaction we are talking about. The world of the non-tonal is a huge umbrella encompassing many different styles some of them seemingly very consonant. Obviously, politics plays a much greater role in European music than in the United States, especial where nationalism and state support are a given. On the other hand aren’t you implying that to be an independent composer you have to be “tonal”? Isn't that just the same thing in a different guise? Can't I just be tonal in my spare time? Phil's page

Comments: 0   Edit
some post modern humor
By: Philip Fried Date: Feb 6, 2007 - 08:07 PM

some humor
By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com philmusic@aol.com

Would a parcel-post composer be an overnight sensation? Would a post-toasty composer make us feel all warm and fuzzy? I apologize in advance. Phil

Tuesday, February 06, 2007, 11:33:05 AM

Comments: 0   Edit
Opera
By: Philip Fried Date: Feb 6, 2007 - 03:03 PM

Phil's resume stuffer

Ok singers! I just composed an opera titled;

"Important Opera Houses in Europe and the United States."-It has 2 parts

The Prima Donna and Major Roles

So if you chose to be in my opera you can truthfully write in your resume that you Performed:

Major Roles in Important Opera Houses in Europe and the United States!

or

The Prima Donna in Important Opera Houses in Europe and the United States!

The score is available for perusal

Instrumentalists take heart!
I have many solo parts in my Opera!

Comments: 0   Edit
Waste of time
By: Philip Fried Date: Feb 6, 2007 - 08:04 AM

Why worry about them others?

A question was asked recently about the old uptown/downtown new music split and what if anything it meant. The theory that there are (only) 2 mutually exclusive music scenes (both in New York City) are on the face of it ridicules, and mostly counter productive. However many folks think that this is true, but not as many as those people who want it to be true because they have a vested interest.

Lets review the generalizations:

    Uptown


    Downtown

    Old fashioned and informed by history


    New and unprecedented, innovative

    Serious


    Fun

    Establishment


    Anti establishment

    Artificial


    Real

    Square


    Hip

    Academic –disconnected from audience


    Folk—audience comes first

    Institutional


    Independent

    Traditional


    Experimental

    Powerful


    Oppressed

    Exclusive


    Inclusive

    Insiders


    Outsiders

    Intellectual /dry


    Emotional/exciting

    Accepts serial music


    Rejects serial music

    Rejects popular and world music


    Inclusive of all styles except the above

    White Male Dominated


    Not!

    Rich upper crusties


    Just plain folks

    Republican


    Green

    Success oriented- money


    Art oriented-love

    12 semi tones only please


    All kinds of tuning

    them-The monolith


    us- The Other

    Formal


    Informal

    Old jazz


    Beyond Jazz

    Great music sounds great


    great music must look good too!

    Blessed by Babbitt


    Blessed by Cage

    programing


    mashing

    institutional


    entrepreneurial

    Educated


    The "street"

Is there something to this?

A cursory look at these generalizations shows enough holes in the logic strings to make a Swiss cheese. Also, downtown sort of looks something like your typical Coke/Pepsi/Sprite advertising campaign. Obviously, in a commercial society art needs to advertise to appeal to its target audience. So what is this all about? Is it simply the new money audience verses the old money? Possibly. Is it an innocent way of “branding” a sound? Is it just a bunch of Alpha Males and Alpha Females gone wild?

Perhaps it's this -- many people, and composers in particular, seem to be hurt by the arts “system” that they don’t control; we don't get the respect we deserve in this country. When the big job or performance we wanted doesn’t come as planned, some of us need to assign blame. All composers fail at times, no matter who they are. The question is: what is your breaking point? I am always surprised at these self-described oppressed folks, who careers are unimpeded. They have big jobs, major awards, etc., but obviously there is a moral high ground to be had as an oppressed person that no amount of success or high position can gratify. It is not a surprise that there are always people who know how to take advantage of that discontent. Those who propose the downtown/uptown schism are saying "see, we are the real avant-garde.".

More wastes of time

Worrying about the unfair competition:

Schnitzel Balm's Law:

In any educational institution an unworthy will be elevated for a term to an exalted position. This happens because teachers have the power to do so, and because the student(s) are oh so grateful. The less worthy the more grateful. The crash and burn of unsustainable expectations are not the teachers concern.

The Schnitzel Balm Syndrome:

If you are a "chosen one" enjoy the ride but remember that you are skating on quicksand. For a quick reality check please see Simon Cowell.

All About Phil

Upcoming Performances & Current Work

Reviews

About My Music

New Composition List

A reminder that all materials here are copyright © 2007 by Philip Fried, and permission is required to reprint in any form.

Comments: 0   Edit
Where did the great composers go?
By: Philip Fried Date: Feb 6, 2007 - 08:01 AM

There was a time when we understood that in every generation there was a great composer, but that time seems long gone. There have been many theories about why composers are so absent from the public “scene.” One question that could be asked is this; what did the "great composer" do for society and who if anyone now fills that role? I propose that these composers functioned as the ombudsman of the imagination. Beethoven was one of them, perhaps the first of them, and for many he still fills that role. He understood something about our human condition that we knew about ourselves internally but that only he could seem to express to the world. People acknowledged it.

Some generalizations:

Beethoven is not thought of as self interested or careerist.

Even though he was not a leader in a composer’s society or guild, there was no shame or loss of status for other living composers who supported the notion that Beethoven (alive) was a better composer then they were.

His world view was not narrow.
Though he was not a writer of speeches, he maintained a public life.

He did not use gamesmanship or personal politics for advantage or to maintain his success.

He tried to make a difference in society with his music.

I'm afraid that the imagination is no longer honored in American society as we have replaced it with media. For every book we now know what every character looks like and how they speak-- and they just happen to talk and act like us. The popular music cartel (also part of the media)has managed to steal some of art music's thunder by focusing on its own alleged integrity and its many charitable works (though they have only recently been interested in music education). Though it is true that popular song can be a point of political galvanization, its the words that are the focus more than the music. Folk songs have no composer. Today, the artistic and financial survival of so many composers is predicated on working in a very narrow context. So they must reject having any appeal outside their own musical "ghetto."

Anyway, even if we all had open and unencumbered imaginations this doesn't sound like any composer we know today.

Comments: 1   Edit
The First Emperor
By: Philip Fried Date: Jan 13, 2007 - 05:20 PM
When I went to hear this work at the MET simulcast I was afraid that is was merely a political work--Chinese composers can come to American and find artistic success criticizing their old homelands and of course certainly not critiquing their new homeland.
Anyway, after hearing the work on the MET simulcast--I was a little shocked as this was not the work I was expecting. I was informed and had experienced Mr. Dun as an avant-garde composer and not as a reborn Ralph Vaughn Williams or Delibes with a couple of glissandos thrown in to keep up to date. I was shocked that he chose to sacrifice everything; text, scansion, drama, character, musical integration and content, in order to create constant big operatic moments and the cheap thrill of the high note.   By the way, a story in which a composer bites the hand of his benefactor certainly is a fairy tale
Comments: 0   Edit
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a reply to Alex Ross
By: Philip Fried Date: Feb 8, 2007 - 02:35 PM

Do I have to be tonal?
By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com philmusic@aol.com

“my complaint about contemporary Austro-German music has to do with the self-imposed limits on language, the still powerful taboo against tonality.” A Minnesota composer just back from Latvia had a similar complaint. It seems that under Soviet “influence” composers there were not allowed to compose non-tonal music of any type and now that that influence was gone there was the natural reaction --everyone dumped tonality. Atonality was the forbidden fruit. Since I have not heard the music in question I can’t comment of the degree or type of reaction we are talking about. The world of the non-tonal is a huge umbrella encompassing many different styles some of them seemingly very consonant. Obviously, politics plays a much greater role in European music than in the United States, especial where nationalism and state support are a given. On the other hand aren’t you implying that to be an independent composer you have to be “tonal”? Isn't that just the same thing in a different guise? Can't I just be tonal in my spare time? Phil's page

Comments: -1   Edit
some post modern humor
By: Philip Fried Date: Feb 6, 2007 - 08:07 PM

some humor
By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com philmusic@aol.com

Would a parcel-post composer be an overnight sensation? Would a post-toasty composer make us feel all warm and fuzzy? I apologize in advance. Phil

Tuesday, February 06, 2007, 11:33:05 AM

Comments: 0   Edit
Opera
By: Philip Fried Date: Feb 6, 2007 - 03:03 PM

Phil's resume stuffer

Ok singers! I just composed an opera titled;

"Important Opera Houses in Europe and the United States."-It has 2 parts

The Prima Donna and Major Roles

So if you chose to be in my opera you can truthfully write in your resume that you Performed:

Major Roles in Important Opera Houses in Europe and the United States!

or

The Prima Donna in Important Opera Houses in Europe and the United States!

The score is available for perusal

Instrumentalists take heart!
I have many solo parts in my Opera!

A cursory look at these generalizations shows enough holes in the logic strings to make a Swiss cheese. Also, downtown sort of looks something like your typical Coke/Pepsi/Sprite advertising campaign. Obviously, in a commercial society art needs to advertise to appeal to its target audience. So what is this all about? Is it simply the new money audience verses the old money? Possibly. Is it an innocent way of “branding” a sound? Is it just a bunch of Alpha Males and Alpha Females gone wild?

Perhaps it's this -- many people, and composers in particular, seem to be hurt by the arts “system” that they don’t control; we don't get the respect we deserve in this country. When the big job or performance we wanted doesn’t come as planned, some of us need to assign blame. All composers fail at times, no matter who they are. The question is: what is your breaking point? I am always surprised at these self-described oppressed folks, who careers are unimpeded. They have big jobs, major awards, etc., but obviously there is a moral high ground to be had as an oppressed person that no amount of success or high position can gratify. It is not a surprise that there are always people who know how to take advantage of that discontent. Those who propose the downtown/uptown schism are saying "see, we are the real avant-garde.".

More wastes of time

Worrying about the unfair competition:

Schnitzel Balm's Law:

In any educational institution an unworthy will be elevated for a term to an exalted position. This happens because teachers have the power to do so, and because the student(s) are oh so grateful. The less worthy the more grateful. The crash and burn of unsustainable expectations are not the teachers concern.

The Schnitzel Balm Syndrome:

If you are a "chosen one" enjoy the ride but remember that you are skating on quicksand. For a quick reality check please see Simon Cowell.

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Where did the great composers go?
By: Philip Fried Date: Feb 6, 2007 - 08:01 AM

There was a time when we understood that in every generation there was a great composer, but that time seems long gone. There have been many theories about why composers are so absent from the public “scene.” One question that could be asked is this; what did the "great composer" do for society and who if anyone now fills that role? I propose that these composers functioned as the ombudsman of the imagination. Beethoven was one of them, perhaps the first of them, and for many he still fills that role. He understood something about our human condition that we knew about ourselves internally but that only he could seem to express to the world. People acknowledged it.

Some generalizations:

Beethoven is not thought of as self interested or careerist.

Even though he was not a leader in a composer’s society or guild, there was no shame or loss of status for other living composers who supported the notion that Beethoven (alive) was a better composer then they were.

His world view was not narrow.
Though he was not a writer of speeches, he maintained a public life.

He did not use gamesmanship or personal politics for advantage or to maintain his success.

He tried to make a difference in society with his music.

I'm afraid that the imagination is no longer honored in American society as we have replaced it with media. For every book we now know what every character looks like and how they speak-- and they just happen to talk and act like us. The popular music cartel (also part of the media)has managed to steal some of art music's thunder by focusing on its own alleged integrity and its many charitable works (though they have only recently been interested in music education). Though it is true that popular song can be a point of political galvanization, its the words that are the focus more than the music. Folk songs have no composer. Today, the artistic and financial survival of so many composers is predicated on working in a very narrow context. So they must reject having any appeal outside their own musical "ghetto."

Anyway, even if we all had open and unencumbered imaginations this doesn't sound like any composer we know today.

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The First Emperor
By: Philip Fried Date: Jan 13, 2007 - 05:20 PM
When I went to hear this work at the MET simulcast I was afraid that is was merely a political work--Chinese composers can come to American and find artistic success criticizing their old homelands and of course certainly not critiquing their new homeland.
Anyway, after hearing the work on the MET simulcast--I was a little shocked as this was not the work I was expecting. I was informed and had experienced Mr. Dun as an avant-garde composer and not as a reborn Ralph Vaughn Williams or Delibes with a couple of glissandos thrown in to keep up to date. I was shocked that he chose to sacrifice everything; text, scansion, drama, character, musical integration and content, in order to create constant big operatic moments and the cheap thrill of the high note.   By the way, a story in which a composer bites the hand of his benefactor certainly is a fairy tale
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