Tuesday, January 18, 2011

old posts 20

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By: Philip Fried Date: Feb 8, 2008 - 04:55 PM

http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=5447

 Rock the vote!!

good work Carl
By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com

Politics can be a very touchy subject especially where our self interest and power (or lack there of) are concerned.

As a music educator I like this approach: NYT

Phil Fried







http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=5443


By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com

For me live music is choice A

recorded music is choice B

On the other hand many of the social aspects of music and community have changed (or been re-invented) and this requires futher thought.

Phil Fried

Wednesday, February 06, 2008, 11:04:39 AM



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in trouble again
By: Philip Fried Date: Feb 5, 2008 - 05:22 PM

http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=5436

Mr. Haber was talking antisemitism when the usual gang started nit picking--however It seems that I mis-wrote my reply which then when to far --yet I wanted to get back to the central point!--anyway so someone else chimes in to and blind sides me!



back on topic
By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com

"..Who knows when their country, the country their families have lived in for 22 centuries, will change its mind once again.."

Folks, we can quibble all we want about the various points and timelines or about who is more [sic]anti-emitic. the fact is-today; .

Jews feel unsafe everywhere! [this should read Jews "can" feel unsafe everywhere!

Phil Fried



anti up
By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com

Folks, we can quibble all we want about the various points and timelines or about who is more "anti-semitic"

yikkes

Phil Fried



 Dean replies -a little insulting if you ask me.

Safe and Sound
By Dean Rosenthal - deanrosenthal@gmail.com

Don't generalize, please, it just makes you look paranoid at best. When my grandparents fled Europe for Connecticut, they took with them the vision of the future - we live history the way we project ourselves, Phil.

America's a great way to focus in on the positive - for all of us, not just the people of the book, whatever that means.

Really, you don't speak for me, and I feel strongly about this. My family just survived the war, and definitely not to reinforce your experience of generalizing my experience, you know?

Tuesday, February 05, 2008, 1:35:45 PM


By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com

"..When my grandparents fled Europe for Connecticut,.."

Is the past that distant?

Phil

Tuesday, February 05, 2008, 2:21:03 PM

trying to be on topic
By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com

"..Don't generalize, please, . .."

Ok I get it now-I was talking about the post, the Jewish community [sic]is Rome,



Of course nothing like that could happen here.

Yet, my family still lives in Greenwich village and they were in some danger, as I remember, some time back. Luckily no one I knew was killed.

Phil Fried

Tuesday, February 05, 2008, 2:28:18 PM

one more time
By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com

"..Don't generalize, please, . .."

Ok I get it now-I was talking about the post, the Jewish community in Rome, I did not mean to generalize Dean. I only speak for myself.

Phil Fried







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By: Philip Fried Date: Feb 4, 2008 - 09:16 PM

http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=5429



Besides all the colorful metaphors..
By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com

There are many interesting issues raised here; Why compose for ensemble “types” when it is unlike you will get performed?

Creativity is not governed by “rules” -it presents solutions! Present yours!!

GO HERE!!!

MN Orchestra composers institute

Phil Fried





 http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=5437



Me love jargon
By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com

"...To deny it is to deny the past, the present, and the future..."

Well I suppose this covers it.

One thing though. It seems obvious that you have not had the experience of working in a factory, or in an office or store, where they play canned music all day long. You can't tune it out and you can't turn it off and you don't get to chose it. Those sound canceling headphones are not allowed either. Oh, of course you can quit the job--unless you need the money.

Phil Fried

Sunday, February 03, 2008, 11:26:02 PM









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By: Philip Fried Date: Feb 4, 2008 - 09:14 PM

http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=5436



back on topic
By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com

"..Who knows when their country, the country their families have lived in for 22 centuries, will change its mind once again.."

Folks, we can quibble all we want about the various points and timelines or about who is more antisemitic. the fact is-today; .

Jews feel unsafe everywhere!

Phil Fried



 __________________________________________________________

http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=5438
By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com

The most interesting opinions on music teaching, any music teaching, I have read were by Carl Flesch. --and some interesting compositions used as examples as well (vol. 2?) - in his violin book.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Flesch

Phil Fried





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nmb reply carl stone
By: Philip Fried Date: Jan 25, 2008 - 05:16 AM

 http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=5416



http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=5425

 Union busting goes digital-what else is new?

Phil Fried



Crumbs from the table?
By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com

"...and focus on the ethical and aesthetic."

I have no problem with art. I do have a problem with the implicit redistribution of wealth. Oh yes-serious money is involved here. Content has value.

Where does the money go? Where will the money go?

Phil Fried

Thursday, January 24, 2008, 1:01:54 PM

 _____________________________________________________________________________

 http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=5422



It could be worse!
By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com
Frank, are you suggesting that too much good music has a downside?

 _____________________________________________________________________________



 http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=5424

I was late to the table
By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com

I started composing in my 4th year at college so my first song composed is still the first song in my list. It turned out quite well so I kept at it. Strange, it's also based on 9, 13 chords.

Phil Fried

Phil's page Text



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David Lynch on the iphone-nmb
By: Philip Fried Date: Jan 16, 2008 - 02:25 PM



 http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=5408

the spice is the worm the worm is the spice

By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com

I loved Dune. Especially this line:

Fear is the mind-killer!

Phil Fried


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nmb reply Trevor Hunter
By: Philip Fried Date: Jan 16, 2008 - 02:23 PM

http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=5409


By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com

"..Much sweat and ink has been spilled over the perceived lack of interest in classical/new/art/experimental music for decades now.""

But that's all it is- a perception.

In my small experience folks love the real thing. Though it is true that much depends on the context of presentation, authenticity is its own reward.

Phil Fried



By rtanaka - ryant@ryangtanaka.com

Phil, what's your definition of "authentic"? Honest question.



a clarification

By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com



...classical/new/art/experimental music is its own reward--I thought that was clear!

Phil

Sunday, January 13, 2008, 4:37:22 PM


hmmmm

By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com


Perhaps my comment referred to this: "...For those of us who write music that is particularly incomprehensible to the public, deliberately limiting our vocabulary might yield more economically viable results..."

I have found that most crowd pleasing classical composers don't try to pander at all--its just their natural voice. There's a place for us all.

Phil, honestly.



Sunday, January 13, 2008, 6:54:19 PM















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By: Philip Fried Date: Jan 16, 2008 - 02:18 PM

 sometimes it get too serious in there!

-also all of these unverifiable claims by folks start to get to me

 http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=5411

 I have a hard time with the generalization that a certain skill level will lead to a certain type of compositional style.

Skills be damned--its the music that counts!

Phil Fried

Monday, January 14, 2008, 11:52:36 PM

sorry...
By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com

Said Liliy St. Cyr

As she tossed back a beer

“no need to shed tears

I can vouch for your ears”

Though pitch discrimination

And its cheep imitation

Casts a pall over the nation

Please, be of good cheer

Which one of us is blest

To know who’s ears are best

Shall I propose a test?

Then who would adhere?

I don’t mean to nudge

But so few bloggers budge

And no one would fudge

What they say around here.

Said Lilly St. Cyr

“You are all so sincere

“no need to shed tears

I will vouch for your ears”


Phil Fried

Wednesday, January 16, 2008, 10:06:21 AM


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yet another NMB reply
By: Philip Fried Date: Jan 11, 2008 - 02:59 PM



 http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=5405

well...

By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com

I admire those disciplined types who compose on a schedule. For myself, sometimes I chip away at a work and other times the composing takes on a life of its own and hundreds of measures seem to come at a moment.

I’ve tackled long-term projects; I just finished a 3 act opera that took me 10 years to complete. Short ones too. Well, haven’t we all?


There can be distractions. Good ones like-practice time for my solo performances and some not so good as in health issues including an attack of shingles that left me with severe headaches and unable to compose.


That was the hardest part


Phil Fried

 One thought here is this; I am finding that most bloggers are here to self promote, not to be involved in debate or even  to interface with others, but rather to show a series of events with themselves in the center.

I don't want to flame anyone, yet the solipsistic contents of many bloggers posts is a bit hard to ignore.

 For example the use of "we" when they mean "I".

It seems also that the longer the post the less knowledge is revealed. 









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nmb reply with addenda
By: Philip Fried Date: Jan 11, 2008 - 02:47 PM

http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=5406

 Ok those "bad boys" are at it again this time with the "provocative jazz" --proposing that music has no "meaning" and then letting the fur fly-Its so easy to be glib when it concerns you not a lick! It also has the subtext of knowledge that you don't have. Tsk Tsk!!!


By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com


Lot of folks "think" that music has meaning. Many other folks "believe" that music has a meaning. Some do both. It's not surprising that some might disagree. Music may not have a meaning to everyone, but what is gained by this point of view? As a musician and teacher I know the benefits the language of music can bring to children and others.



For many cultures, and also native cultures, music frames their important rituals with specific meaning.



Phil Fried







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a good view of music education
By: Philip Fried Date: Jan 8, 2008 - 05:30 PM

By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com

An interesting article on music education I agree with.

NYT http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/25/arts/music/25musi.html

Phil Fried

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someone asked
By: Philip Fried Date: Dec 31, 2007 - 12:16 AM
I was at a baby shower tonight, and someone, a graphic artist, asked me about my work as a composer.  I said that I had just finished my opera "the snows of Kilimanjaro" based on the Hemingway story- 99 % verbatum-- 10 years to do and I just have about 900 more measures to orchestrate--the easy part of the job--the notes and words--a bit harder,  I explained that I had no performance in the pipeline, nor was that expected-as this was not a work that I would wait to have commissioned, or not--I had to do it.  The essence of creativity for me is to answer a question that has not been asked-yet.

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NMB reply to Mr. Holland's opus?
By: Philip Fried Date: Dec 30, 2007 - 11:51 PM

http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=5389



Ok folks, my problem here is that the people who blog here seem take everything at face value--Mr. Holland's word (composers don't care a lick about audiences) is not law, nor true. Perhaps there might be reasons having nothing to do with us composers that he wrote as he did. For one thing purely classical reviewers are being fired!

"first catch a rabbit"
By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com

I'm reminded of those recipes for stew that start; "first catch a rabbit".

We talk a whole lot about the "audiences" here as if they were a big monolithic entity, rather then sets and subsets and more subsets of subsets. Excluding our own private parties, how many of us will actually ever get to confront this so-called audience? How many of us will be performed by or under the auspices of major institutions or will be reviewed by Mr. Holland?

There are many kinds of composers and wannabes out there. I know two kinds:

those who accept the music world for what it is--because its to their advantage.

and those who don't, because its not.

Phil Fried

Sunday, December 30, 2007, 2:19:34 PM

and a further reply to Roger R.




By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com

"Why are the latest classical music critics in the major media outlets so pop oriented? ..."

I have been reading that many major media outlets are dropping their "classical music" coverage. So whats left?

Phil Fried

Sunday, December 30, 2007, 10:32:49 PM

back on the subject

By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com

 How about us composers refusing to dance to the tune of "pundits" who masquerade as artistic leaders?

 It seems that this thread has devolved ito claims and counter claims--who talks the talk and who walks the walk--or whether all composers who blog share a simular aim.   I think It's fair to question the verasity of any blogger



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Mr. D strikes back
By: Philip Fried Date: Dec 21, 2007 - 11:00 AM



Since Mr. D. can  position his arguments to mean anything, there is no point in continuing this.  



Is playing an incredibly romantic piece of music as sensual for a harpist as climbing into a hot bath with a new lover?
By coreydargel - corey@automaticheartbreak.com



Phil,

Surely you don't expect me to explain a statement as simple as "Don't confuse stubbornness with ignorance. They are not the same thing," if all you have to say in response is "HUH?" Was that a joke? Oh, duh, I just got it! Good one!



Okay, now let's get slightly more serious. In an earlier post, you had explicitly put me in the "relativist camp," but that is inaccurate. I am not merely suggesting that we should find different ways of interpreting the historical narrative; I am instead suggesting that we call into question the very foundations of historical narratives and historical progress.


Suggesting that a rock band is the same as Beethoven is relativism--whether this constitutes a radical idea and useful for artists is up for debate. I hope its not just self justification.

This is a really poor and reductive evaluation of my argument.


Of course Beethoven and Radiohead are not the same! I never said that.



Perhaps I can clarify for you: I do not dismiss the intricacies of Beethoven's music and compare it to potato chips. I wouldn't tell a composer who wanted to study Beethoven that he or she should be studying Radiohead instead. But it seems certain people in this discussion would do the opposite. They would tell young composers to stop wasting their time with salty, vinegary Radiohead and learn their Beethoven, as if composers should rather be traditional music historians!The only justification for that point of view is to claim that Beethoven's music is better because it's part of the canon and Radiohead's is not. That thoughtless, lazy mindset is what I'm arguing against.


Listening to Bach in a church is not exactly a comprehensive way of experiencing Bach's music in its own time and place.

Again a change of subject-- first Mr. Dargel mentions social aspects, now he changes it to time and place.

Actually I mentioned time and place first. Here's what I wrote in my initial post:

"How could it surprise you that a young composer is not thoroughly inspired to listen to a piece of music from a time and place that he or she has no way of relating to?... it's not surprising that Bach's music... has no social or political immediacy for today's creative musicians."

It's seems as though maybe you and I are thinking of "social aspects" in different ways. Maybe you were suggesting that being in a church and listening to Bach's music provides a social community of fellow church-goers. That's very nice, of course, but a gathering of people in a church in which Bach's music is played does not result in the kind of "social and political immediacy" or "time and place" that I was referring to. But again, I'm not saying that people shouldn't listen to Bach's music. All I'm saying is that it doesn't have the same immediacy (for some composers) as other, more time- and place-appropriate musics.


You can nit-pick with the specifics of History all you want... but... history ain't what it used to be.

Since I never "claimed" the above again this has nothing to do with my post--again Mr. Dargel changes the subject to where he is most comfortable, so he can spout off about the "we" who are "changing" history.

Sorry, Phil, I wasn't responding only to your post. I was responding to a few different posts. Perhaps that's why you though I kept changing the subject: because I wasn't responding solely to your comments. At any rate, I can assure you that it really doesn't have anything to do with my comfort level. I'm sure I've pissed off enough people who serve on the occasional grant panel that I really can't be too concerned with my comfort level.



He did not answer my question:

The question I would ask both is the study of counterpoint as intellectual for a creative musician as the study of Foucault?

I did not answer your question because I thought it was kind of banal. But since you insist... First of all, I don't know how you would measure the degree to which something is "intellectual." And even if you could measure it, the question seems to suppose that knowledge is a means to end rather than a valuable thing in and of itself.


Foucault is so old school.

First of all, I hope I've never dismissed anything solely on the grounds that it is outdated or old-school. I believe I've always tried to explain my point of view in a substantive way. At any rate, I happen to think that Foucault's writings (as "old school" as they may be) are particularly relevant to this discussion. If my point of view seems old school to you, you're welcome to criticize it for that reason.

[ok this was a cheap remark-- I admit it--yet this invocation of Philosophy over musical content is quite old.]


Though I am flattered that he might claim me as a fore-bearer, I disagree that this is merely an inter-generational issue.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you mean "merely a generational issue," not "merely an inter-generational issue?" It is the original post-er, not me, who made this a generational issue. He did so in his very first sentence.


Thursday, December 20, 2007, 11:45:15 PM

it all boils down to this
By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com

"..Surely you don't expect me to explain a statement as simple as "Don't confuse stubbornness with ignorance..."

I suppose it was wrong of me to expect you to explain yourself.

Phil

PS- you still didn't [not] answer my question.


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NMB reply Mark N. Grant continued
By: Philip Fried Date: Dec 20, 2007 - 05:17 PM

http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=5365

Replying to Mr. Dargel is always problematic as he keeps changing the subject:

Ignorance Is Bliss
By coreydargel -

A few brief comments:

Don't confuse stubbornness with ignorance. They are not the same thing.

HUH?-I never said this!



It's not relativism; it's radicalism.

Suggesting that a rock band is the same as Beethoven is relativism--whether this constitutes a radical idea and useful for artists is up for debate. I hope its not just self justification.



Listening to Bach in a church is not exactly a comprehensive way of experiencing Bach's music in its own time and place.

Again a change of subject-- first Mr. Dargel mentions social aspects, now he changes it to time and place.

You can nit-pick with the specifics of History all you want. You can claim that certain kinds of music don't deserve to be a part of history. But then you buy into the imposed structures, and that's not a valid rebuttal to the claim that History itself is fatally flawed. You only see the evidence that the powers-that-be want you to see. The trick is to look at what's been excluded. There are rules for who gets to be in the History books, and only recently have we been able to subvert those rules with a modicum of democracy in the realm of information technology. It's only a start, but let's just say that history ain't what it used to be.

Since I never "claimed" the above again this has nothing to do with my post--again Mr. Dargel changes the subject to where he is most comfortable, so he can spout off about the "we" who are changing history. He did not answer my question:

The question I would ask both is the study of counterpoint as intellectual for a creative musician as the study of Foucault?

Though I am flattered that he might claim me as a fore-bearer, I disagree that this is merely an inter-generational issue. Foucault is so old school.

a final word pehaps!

we understand each other at last!
By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com

"..You can nit-pick with the specifics of History all you want. .."

Why, yes! We both can!

Phil Fried


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ISIM
By: Philip Fried Date: Dec 17, 2007 - 05:44 PM

sorry folks I've been away to Chicago land at the ISIM convention--I have not quite sorted out my thoughts yet -but it will be a Rip Van Wrinkle kind of story when I do write it down. (I did my free jazz stuff from 1970-1975-then tried the composition world- but I'm easing my way back in -so to speak 30 years later)--so a little culture shock will be the order of the day.





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the thread continues NMB Mark reply
By: Philip Fried Date: Dec 11, 2007 - 06:48 PM



Corey lays out the opposition to Mark's post, my problem is 2 fold--I'm not sure that Mark isn't being disingenuous with his post and Corey and I do not agree here.



first a short side bar!

Dear Bermane:

It's amazing how much space can be filled with a cut and paste

Phil Fried--and I kept this one short!

OK Cory's reply to Mark;

The
By coreydargel - corey@automaticheartbreak.com

A well-read music scholar who believes in the illusory narrative of music history may very well be the worst candidate for a progressive creative musician in the 21st century.

One of the hallmarks of modernity (i.e. industrialism, technology, bureaucracy) is that there are ever-narrowing areas of expertise. Everyone's an expert on something. So let the music historians tell us how century-old music relates to the current day, and leave the composers to write fresh music for the 21st century.

How could it surprise you that a young composer is not thoroughly inspired to listen to a piece of music from a time and place that he or she has no way of relating to? It's not as if their teachers are knowledgeable (or capable) enough to submerge the students in the culture, art, and politics of the time when these "masterworks" were written, so it's not surprising that Bach's music, as lovely as it is in its absolute abstractness, has no social or political immediacy for today's creative musicians.

If you understand how music works, in an abstract sense, then you can get as much out of listening to Radiohead as you can out of listening to Beethoven. No one should be required to accept, much less embrace, the traditional trajectory imposed on the arbitrary and power-centric course of how music history has been chronicled. We need creative musicians who are not beholden to the intellectual shackles of historical "progress."

So stop being reactionary and stop administering scholarly aptitude litmus tests to creative musicians. So much has changed in the last fifty years that students have enough of a challenge digesting the music of the last twenty years, much less the last five-hundred years. And who are you, anyway, to say that the best understanding of music history starts with the distant past and not the recent past?



My reply to Corey



Masters of Illusions?
By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com

“ so it's not surprising that Bach's music, as lovely as it is in its absolute abstractness, has no social or political immediacy for today's creative musicians.

[unless they go to a church where Bach is played. ok I know]

I think we see here the conflict of two highly trained schools (Teams) of thought each one trying to exclude the other and trying very hard to prove their respective points.

In this corner Team “Tradition” represented or rather proposed by Mark-already quoted and questioned.

And in this corner Team “Relativist” represented by Corey.

“If you understand how music works, in an abstract sense, then you can get as much out of listening to Radiohead as you can out of listening to Beethoven. .”

Well perhaps maybe, if its just listening and not performing-- of course its possible I just don’t understand how music works.

There must be a middle ground here I think.

The question I would ask both is the study of counterpoint as intellectual for a creative musician as the study of Foucault?

Phil Fried



[No answer yet- but a sideways comment referring to history not counterpoint. I guess I don't get answers from anyone. Well folks though I respect the approach, it seems odd to me that a musician would not make music in all its aspects their life study. ]



How Ironic That We Find This Ironic!
By coreydargel - corey@automaticheartbreak.com



You would be wrong to assume that I don't know my music history in the traditional sense. But I think music history is wrapped up in the problematic (and IMPOSED) narrative of those in power (this is as true in academic and cultural matters as it is in political and social matters). I think none of us fully comprehends the way those in power shape history and so-called "historical narratives."

We can look at music history without having to conform to traditional means of interpreting it. One way of doing this is to look at what has been, and who have been, left out of music history, and a sensible way to do that is to start with the recent past and work backwards to the distant past.



By Colin Holter - cholter2@uiuc.edu

But there's a difference, Ryan, between history and the historical narrative. Mark's point–that we should be well-versed in history, in things that happened, music that was written, etc.–is right on, absolutely, but that's not the same thing as buying into a narrative, which after all is ultimately a product of ideology. Grout and Palisca offer you the history, of course, but it's selectively presented, designed to be construed as a narrative. The best example I can think of has to do with postwar music: "Serial music was big for a while, but then composers decided they wanted a more direct way to their audiences' hearts, so they went back to writing tonal music." This is a piece of ideology masquerading as a description of events, a narrative disguised as history. One benefit of knowing the history is that it gives us the capability to evaluate the narrative in a critical manner.

As for the other thing, I just don't have it in me to argue with you about Cage today.

By Colin Holter - cholter2@uiuc.edu

I see that Dargel and I wrote almost kind of the same thing at almost kind of the same time. In the distant future, historians will look back on this day in puzzlement.



history or mystery?
By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com

...the best example I can think of has to do with postwar music: "Serial music was big for a while, but then composers decided they wanted a more direct way to their audiences' hearts, so they went back to writing tonal music." This is a piece of ideology masquerading as a description of events, a narrative disguised as history.

Colin, I thought that this was a cover up! Fortunately, I did not get the memo.

Phil Fried








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reply Mark N. Grant again and Ms. X
By: Philip Fried Date: Dec 10, 2007 - 10:10 PM

Its seems that composer kids don't want to eat their wheaties!!

http://newmusicbox.org/chatter/chatter.nmbx?id=5365

By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com

"...the late Donald Martino expressing outrage at his young composition students' insouciant, cavalier rejection of doing these classical things. .."

Well why would composers want to learn techniques that would make their music less viable in the current marketplace?

Complexity is out. Cool, (as you have mentioned those cool people before) and fashionable is in.

Many folks don’t realize that when they try to avoid influences they simple duplicate the work of others, who have already tried rejecting influences years ago. Or find themselves simply adhering to their “first” musical influences and prejudices.

On the other hand new musical pathways are opened through the intersections of old and new concepts and who can predict how this might happen? I can’t.

Just because I feel that compositional technique is the source of all musical advances does not mean that I think that all composers should be just like me. Or, just because they share my attitude does not mean that those would be the only composers that I would respect. That’s ridiculous too.

I think I'm sounding like a teacher?

Its unfortunate Andrew Imbrie is not alive today to weigh in on this topic. My condolences to all of his friends and family.

Phil Fried

Phil's Page



More---

?
By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com

Moreover, Lin is absolutely dead-on: For every young composer who values Berio over Berg, there are five who would rather listen to Les Noces than La Lontanaza Nostalgica Utopica Futura.

This is also very, very correct. Please notice that I did not comment on the alleged "...colleague of mine who teaches at a leading conservatory" hhhmmmm? sound a little funny to me --might we inquire for a name?

Phil Fried

Monday, December 10, 2007, 10:09:03 PM

________________________________________________________________

Composers must be paid ---reply to Ms. X





she says---------


By Lisa X - rdlkj@yahoo.com

Alex, You cant really compare composers with lawyers and other professions where there is a clear path to employment. Independent workers of all kinds are often in these difficult situations of balancing many factors when finding and choosing 'work' like gaining exposure, gaining experience, building working relationships, earning money, padding a resume, etc.

Mark is right to ask for more details and consider everything.

"As someone who is trying to make a living through music, I find it rather humiliating to accept this work: It makes me feel like an amateur."

Its important to consider this a real possibility. Like any other independent worker in a highly competitive and unstable field you have to be willing to accept the good times with the bad. If you are even considering working for free, times must be kinda tough. There are no simple formulas.

Respect your work and demand that you are treated fairly. But Alex's comment: "It's our right to be paid" is just garbage. The world cant afford to pay everyone who is composing any more than it can pay everyone in LA who is acting or every cook who opens a restaurant. Most restaurants close down. Keep cooking. Have a dinner party. Volunteer at the soup kitchen. Cater a friend's wedding. Open another restaurant. Teach a cooking class. Etc.

Sunday, December 09, 2007, 1:23:20 PM

my reply

cut rate composer operators are standing by..
By philmusic - philmusic@aol.com

...But Alex's comment: "It's our right to be paid" is just garbage The world cant afford to pay everyone who is composing any more than it can pay everyone in LA who is acting or every cook who opens a restaurant.. .."

" choosing 'work' like gaining exposure, gaining experience, building working relationships, earning money, padding a resume, etc. .."

Lisa I don't really understand your point here as an "In Kind payment" such as 12 live performances, is still a payment.

Also I don't understand your "acting" or "cooking" analogy. Though it is true that many actors and singers don't get paid, in fact they pay to get performances, yet on the professional level there is an expectation of payment for which most of these acting folks are working towards.

For example no one works on Broadway unless they are paid for it. The fact that most actors, or composers will never work there is a very different point.

Similarly your example of the cook who opens a restaurant as an investment doesn't seem to have much resonance either-- -unless its a one person operation or a co-operative no one works in food service unless they will get paid -not the wait staff not the bus boys and girls etc.

Charity work aside, I don't work for ice cream. I do however have partial day rates!

Phil Fried [I hope I didn't come off too harsh]

Monday, December 10, 2007, 9:11:18 PM


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